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Thread: Some Help Finding a Bottom Bowl Gouge

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed Gray View Post
    Add to that, I almost never buy 'signature' tools. You pay extra for that signature. Part of why I never made or developed my own line of tools. The Big Ugly tool that I use was around for a long time before I picked it up. It may even be older than me...

    robo hippy
    Wait a minute! I'm waiting to buy a "signature" Robo rest....... I'm willing to pay for that!

  2. #17
    I don't think a BOB is snake oil or absolutely necessary to complete a bowl.
    IMHO, the finish you get on the bottom is a combination of the wood, the turner to and the tool used. You typically need two of the three to turn the bottom effectively and return a good aesthetic result.
    Personally I try not to get caught up with which grind is which or who uses it. Use what works for you and call it whatever you want.

  3. #18
    Kyle, they will be out again, but not made by me. I still get a lot of requests for them. Running the business just took up too much of my fun time...

    robo hippy

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Scott View Post
    D-Way has a 3/4" U shape gouge on sale (with or without handle). https://d-waytools.com/3-4-bowl-goug...with-5-8-tang/
    If I could only have one bowl gouge I would choose a D-way... but not the 3/4" U.

    The website claim.... "An excellent gouge for roughing, and with the full radius flute - it makes a great shearing cut for finishing the inside and outside of bowls and platters."

    Shear finishing cuts, yes. The larger the radius, the sweeter the shear cut. Long swept back wings on parabolic and catenary flutes are also good for that.

    However, I found Dave's 3/4" U far too light for roughing cuts. To get its long U fluted edge that is optimised for shear cuts you are left with relatively little steel in the gouge. I found it to be too light and flimsy for big roughing cuts compared to my various other 3/4" BGs (Thompson, Woodcut & Crown).


    I'm not convinced that you need a traditional U flute profile for the inside bottom of bowls. The V flute is definitely not ideal, even with a less swept back grind, but some parabolic and catenary flute profiles work quite well with a grind that is optimised for finishing off in that inside bottom area. I have found the slightly wider flute (as specified by Peter Child) on my Henry Taylor Superflute with a 65° grind does as good job as did the U flute on my old P&Ns.

    Here are some of the flute profiles side by side...


    PN-Thomp-Dway-Ellsw flute profiles.JPG
    From left to right, P&N Super,
    Thompson V, D-Way and Crown


    Thompson-HT gouge flute profiles.JPG
    Thompson V on left and
    Henry Taylor on right.


    Looking at the flute profiles side by side you can see why the Peter Child designed HT Superflute is going to do a reasonable good 'BoB' job compare to the Thompson V.

    The now departed Vicmarc bowl gouge would also do a reasonable 'BoB' job...

    ...as would the Glenn Lucas designed bottom finisher made by Hamlet. See flute profile near the bottom of this webpage... https://www.glennlucaswoodturning.co...ng-bowl-gouge/

    A dedicated U flute may be preferred by some for dedicated BoB work...

    ...but, IME, they are not as versatile as the parabolic or catenary BG flute profiles and should you decide to change over to finishing the inside if your bowls with scrapers, like for example Richard Raffan does, then you are left with a gouge that is not so good for re-purposing for other uses...

    Last edited by Neil Strong; 05-12-2022 at 9:41 PM.
    Neil

    About the same distance from most of you heading East or West.

    It's easy to see the Dunning-Kruger Effect in others, but a bit of a conundrum when it comes to yourself...



  5. #20
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    Very informative, thank you. I'm quite new at turning but I did not find other uses for the u shape so I only went with one. And even if I do finish the inside with scrapers (been doing due diligence on the subject), I'll still need a gouge to get me close and I don't think (could totally be wrong) I can pull off hogging out the whole bottom with a 40/40.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kananis View Post
    I'll still need a gouge to get me close and I don't think (could totally be wrong) I can pull off hogging out the whole bottom with a 40/40.
    The 40/40, 45° and 55° are all too acute for the finishing cuts inside the bottom, IME. The 55° with the heel ground back will get you through the transition but I have found that 65° works OK. The 65° also does a good hogging out cut with something that goes between a push and pull cut... starting with a push cut at the rim to get the bevel rubbing and finishing off with more of a pull cut at very bottom. I do most of my turning outboard and that cut involves quite a bit of footwork and body rotation... as in the lathe tango!
    Last edited by Neil Strong; 05-13-2022 at 12:35 AM.
    Neil

    About the same distance from most of you heading East or West.

    It's easy to see the Dunning-Kruger Effect in others, but a bit of a conundrum when it comes to yourself...



  7. #22
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    Haha, lathe tango, love it.

    The 65° you're saying will be best for the bottom using the U-shaped flute (as I have) or a parabolic? How far do you sweep back the wings (flute)? I was considering a 60° (65 sound good too though, too new to know better) grind with heel ground back to a 40° sweep. Would it be problematic? What am I not considering? Thanks again.

  8. #23
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    For clarity, I meant grind the heel back (at a nonspecific angle) and the wings at 40.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kananis View Post

    The 65° you're saying will be best for the bottom using the U-shaped flute (as I have) or a parabolic? How far do you sweep back the wings (flute)? I was considering a 60° (65 sound good too though, too new to know better) grind with heel ground back to a 40° sweep. Would it be problematic? What am I not considering? Thanks again.
    65° is just what I use, it is not necessarily the best bevel angle for everyone. Glenn Lucas uses 60° whiled others like Reed use 70°. Experiment and see what works for you.

    The secondary heel bevel is done to eliminate metal to shorten the primary bevel so that the heel doesn't leverage the gouge out of the cut while going through the transition. Others give additional reasons for adding a secondary bevel, none of which are as important IME.

    The width of the secondary heel bevel is more important than its angle. Those of us using a jig to sharpen just push our slides in a bit (or use a secondary bevel setting block with pivot point) and grind to give a relatively even primary bevel width.

    Typically the wings on bottom finishing gouges are not swept back as much as on other bowl gouges as all the work is being done on the nose. Just relieve the wings a bit to avoid catching the outer tips of the flute.
    Neil

    About the same distance from most of you heading East or West.

    It's easy to see the Dunning-Kruger Effect in others, but a bit of a conundrum when it comes to yourself...



  10. #25
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    Northern Illinois
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    You might check with Trent Bosch at Trent Bosch Tools. I recently saw him demo a tool which, I think is essentially a gouge, but is ground differently on each side of the gouge cutting edge. It's difficult to explain. I don't know whether he sells it ground that way or not, but I'm sure he would be able to give you some direction on how to grind it. It gives an exceptionally smooth finish; both inside and outside of a bowl.

  11. #26
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    Hi Randy, I went with the Taylor and sons option. Slight grind (maybe 5 or 10 degrees) on the wings is what I went with and a 60° bevel. I'll check out Trent Bosch Tools though, thanks.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Heinemann View Post
    You might check with Trent Bosch at Trent Bosch Tools. I recently saw him demo a tool which, I think is essentially a gouge, but is ground differently on each side of the gouge cutting edge. It's difficult to explain. I don't know whether he sells it ground that way or not, but I'm sure he would be able to give you some direction on how to grind it. It gives an exceptionally smooth finish; both inside and outside of a bowl.
    A number of the older turners favoured an asymmetric grind, including Richards Raffan.

    In the following short video he shows how he grinds it freehand, which is what we had to do before jigs came along...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idB-z6--FAs

    Yes, it looks messy compared to a jig sharpened gouge, but it does the job!

    And, if you would like a masterclass with him using various gouges that you will be familiar with that he has put that asymmetric grind on, here it is...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BH41jx05KI

    Richard D., note the DIY screw chuck that Richard is using... :~}
    Neil

    About the same distance from most of you heading East or West.

    It's easy to see the Dunning-Kruger Effect in others, but a bit of a conundrum when it comes to yourself...



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