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Thread: Seems I always have sharpening questions...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    Seems I always have sharpening questions...

    Hey all, here is what I have:


    1. Two sided Trend diamond stone, 300/1000 grit
    2. 1,000 grit Ohishi water stone
    3. 3,000/10,000 grit combination Ohishi water stone
    4. DMT lapping plate for the water stones
    5. Lie-Nielsen honing guide


    I love the water stones; the do dish a bit but they seem to be effective. My problem is that I have been trying to use the Trend diamond stone for reshaping the primary bevel and it is horrifically slow. So my question is does anyone have a very aggressive solution that they like? I have heard of people using the lapping plate, but that sounds like a horrible idea. I like the water stones, but anything course enough to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish is going to dish like crazy, too. It seems like a diamond stone would be the answer, but it definitely isn't the Trend combination one that I already own.

    Anyone have any suggestions? Even if its way out of the box. I can't really grind because I'm an apartment dweller at the moment who uses a public workshop space.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Jayko View Post
    Hey all, here is what I have:


    1. Two sided Trend diamond stone, 300/1000 grit
    2. 1,000 grit Ohishi water stone
    3. 3,000/10,000 grit combination Ohishi water stone
    4. DMT lapping plate for the water stones
    5. Lie-Nielsen honing guide


    I love the water stones; the do dish a bit but they seem to be effective. My problem is that I have been trying to use the Trend diamond stone for reshaping the primary bevel and it is horrifically slow. So my question is does anyone have a very aggressive solution that they like? I have heard of people using the lapping plate, but that sounds like a horrible idea. I like the water stones, but anything course enough to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish is going to dish like crazy, too. It seems like a diamond stone would be the answer, but it definitely isn't the Trend combination one that I already own.

    Anyone have any suggestions? Even if its way out of the box. I can't really grind because I'm an apartment dweller at the moment who uses a public workshop space.

    Thanks!
    An 8" low speed grinder with a Norton 3X 80 grit wheel. Once you learn to grind, sharpening becomes a mere touch up on the stone. You only have to grind once every few months, but makes honing a breeze.

  3. #3
    Slow speed grinder with a cbn wheel or worksharp 3000 with cbn discs.

  4. #4
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    Nov 2015
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    I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Jayko View Post
    I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...
    Hi James, have you tried abrasive sheets (aka sandpaper)?

    My solution is likely not going to be your solution. Mine is a four foot long piece of granite with pressure sensitive adhesive (PSA) backed roll stock abrasive attached. Most often it has a 2 or 300 grit paper attached.

    For use in an apartment you might pick up a piece of granite tile from the local big box store. Maybe take a good straight edge with you to check it for flatness.

    The paper will wear down, but so do diamond plates. The paper is cheaper and easier to replace.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
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    A coarse crystolon bench stone will be more aggressive than your diamond stones. Distribute the stone wear to keep it flat, use plenty of oil.

    Alternatively, 80 or 120 grit PSA sandpaper and the honing guide. Don't burn your fingers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera View Post
    A coarse crystolon bench stone will be more aggressive than your diamond stones. Distribute the stone wear to keep it flat, use plenty of oil.

    Alternatively, 80 or 120 grit PSA sandpaper and the honing guide. Don't burn your fingers.
    If a blade is in real bad shape, a coarse grade of sandpaper may be in order.

    Remember, the bigger the scratches made by one grade of abrasive the more time it takes to work them out on the next grade.

    Crystolon is an oilstone. Going from an oilstone to a water stone can be weird. It is difficult to get every last micron of oil off of the blade being worked. Any oil tends to make the tool being honed float on a water stone, DAMHIKT!

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
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    If a stone is desired rather than sandpaper, sharpeningsupplies.com has a very coarse silicon carbide stone that they call ďthe grinder stone.Ē They recommend that it be used with water rather than oil.

    I have had one for a few months now. It is the fastest stone Iíve ever used, and seems to stay flat a bit more easily than my coarse Crystolon. So far Iíve mostly used it for rehabbing some ridiculously dull old chisels and a couple of Kent pattern hewing hatchets. The scratch depth seems comparable to my broken-in DMT extra coarse, but it cuts significantly faster than the DMT. The 300 grit side of your Trend stone should be able to remove the scratches fairly quickly, I would expect.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Jayko View Post
    I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...
    I don't understand? Lay down a canvas tarp. The sparks are dead by the time they reach the floor. Or use a wet wheel Tormek

  10. #10
    For what it's worth, I've found the Trend diamond stone to be incredibly slow. I'm not an expert, but I suspect that's a poor stone that wears quickly. Sandpaper is the option that worked best for me. If you can't afford a granite slab or float glass, I've found some tiles at Home Depot to be pretty flat and they're only a few bucks apiece. I would bring a straight edge with you to go through them to make sure the one you get is flat.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Jayko View Post
    I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    I don't understand? Lay down a canvas tarp. The sparks are dead by the time they reach the floor. Or use a wet wheel Tormek
    Richard, you seem to be missing something here. James doesn't have any place to set up a grinder. He doesn't appear to have a shop set up in his apartment. He is using a public workspace that may not be secure. He may also be in a financial place that many of us have been in where investing in a grinder, even if he had a place to use one, is not practical at this time. I have been there.

    There are other ways to solve his current needs without having the luxury of a powered sharpening system.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  12. #12
    A Worksharp wouldn't make much noise.

    How far off is the primary bevel?

    As mentioned, sandpaper is probably the best option. A piece of melamine is good enough.

  13. #13
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    The Trend diamond products I have tried have all worn out way too fast. They are all gone while I still use a DMT diamond plate from 2002. That being said, wheel grinders aside, coarse diamond products tend to lose their initial aggressiveness rather quickly. I never use stones for reshaping but I do understand your limitation of the apartment life. A wheel grinder would undoubtedly rouse the neighbors. A Worksharp 3K with 80 grit paper would be quieter but I would probably try glass (scary sharp) with a quality abrasive given your particular circumstances. I do find it surprising that a community workshop wouldn't have a wheel grinder. Even a cheapie would be better than nothing. Sorry . . . I got off track. You can shape things tolerably with a roll of PSA abrasive, a piece of glass, and a guide. For work that coarse you could even use a piece of tile from the BORG. My scary sharp setup uses tile for the first two coarse grits then moves to glass for the micro abrasive film.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 04-28-2022 at 1:25 PM.
    Take me to the hotel - Baggage gone, oh well . . .

  14. #14
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    I wish I had someone to teach me good sharpening practices in the beginning. You can read about sharpening all you want but there's nothing better than a good mentor. Seems like I'm still learning and I'm 68, been playing with sharp tools all my life. Seems like only recently that I finally realized the importance of the burr. I always tried for a burr but didn't really understand it. Now that I do, I've gone back to my oilstones to see if I could have gotten as good an edge as I do with my Shaptons. Turns out I can. I don't own a translucent or a surgical black but it doesn't matter. A good strop with green or gold compound and I'm there. At least with the steels I currently own.

  15. #15
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    I had the same experience with coarse diamond stones (DMT Diasharp X-Coarse) back when I was beginning. I assumed they'd be super fast, but it never really turned out that way. They are still useful for many things, but removing a lot of material is not my preferred use. Really, the only stone I've had that was much good for coarse work is a coarse Crystolon. It's an oil stone, but sheds grit almost like a waterstone. So it doesn't stay super flat, but does maintain its cutting speed over time unlike an India stone. For bevel work, you don't need it to stay super flat. Just try to use the whole stone as much as possible to keep it within reason. Keep in mind, with the oil and loose grit it is a very messy stone.

    A fresh sheet of 80 grit PSA paper stuck on something flat is the fastest way to hand grind that I've found, especially if you need to produce a flat surface. "Fresh" is important; the paper slows down dramatically after a few minutes of use. If you're trying to remove a lot of material, keep changing the paper.

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