Seems I always have sharpening questions...

[James Jayko]

Hey all, here is what I have:

1. Two sided Trend diamond stone, 300/1000 grit
2. 1,000 grit Ohishi water stone
3. 3,000/10,000 grit combination Ohishi water stone
4. DMT lapping plate for the water stones
5. Lie-Nielsen honing guide

I love the water stones; the do dish a bit but they seem to be effective. My problem is that I have been trying to use the Trend diamond stone for reshaping the primary bevel and it is horrifically slow. So my question is does anyone have a very aggressive solution that they like? I have heard of people using the lapping plate, but that sounds like a horrible idea. I like the water stones, but anything course enough to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish is going to dish like crazy, too. It seems like a diamond stone would be the answer, but it definitely isn't the Trend combination one that I already own.

Anyone have any suggestions? Even if its way out of the box. I can't really grind because I'm an apartment dweller at the moment who uses a public workshop space.

Thanks!

[Richard Coers]

Hey all, here is what I have:

1. Two sided Trend diamond stone, 300/1000 grit
2. 1,000 grit Ohishi water stone
3. 3,000/10,000 grit combination Ohishi water stone
4. DMT lapping plate for the water stones
5. Lie-Nielsen honing guide

I love the water stones; the do dish a bit but they seem to be effective. My problem is that I have been trying to use the Trend diamond stone for reshaping the primary bevel and it is horrifically slow. So my question is does anyone have a very aggressive solution that they like? I have heard of people using the lapping plate, but that sounds like a horrible idea. I like the water stones, but anything course enough to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish is going to dish like crazy, too. It seems like a diamond stone would be the answer, but it definitely isn't the Trend combination one that I already own.

Anyone have any suggestions? Even if its way out of the box. I can't really grind because I'm an apartment dweller at the moment who uses a public workshop space.

Thanks!

An 8" low speed grinder with a Norton 3X 80 grit wheel. Once you learn to grind, sharpening becomes a mere touch up on the stone. You only have to grind once every few months, but makes honing a breeze.

[Prashun Patel]

Slow speed grinder with a cbn wheel or worksharp 3000 with cbn discs.

[James Jayko]

I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...

[Jim Koepke]

I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...

Hi James, have you tried abrasive sheets (aka sandpaper)?

My solution is likely not going to be your solution. Mine is a four foot long piece of granite with pressure sensitive adhesive (PSA) backed roll stock abrasive attached. Most often it has a 2 or 300 grit paper attached.

For use in an apartment you might pick up a piece of granite tile from the local big box store. Maybe take a good straight edge with you to check it for flatness.

The paper will wear down, but so do diamond plates. The paper is cheaper and easier to replace.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

A coarse crystolon bench stone will be more aggressive than your diamond stones. Distribute the stone wear to keep it flat, use plenty of oil.

Alternatively, 80 or 120 grit PSA sandpaper and the honing guide. Don't burn your fingers.

[Jim Koepke]

A coarse crystolon bench stone will be more aggressive than your diamond stones. Distribute the stone wear to keep it flat, use plenty of oil.

Alternatively, 80 or 120 grit PSA sandpaper and the honing guide. Don't burn your fingers.

If a blade is in real bad shape, a coarse grade of sandpaper may be in order.

Remember, the bigger the scratches made by one grade of abrasive the more time it takes to work them out on the next grade.

Crystolon is an oilstone. Going from an oilstone to a water stone can be weird. It is difficult to get every last micron of oil off of the blade being worked. Any oil tends to make the tool being honed float on a water stone, DAMHIKT!

jtk

[Michael Bulatowicz]

If a stone is desired rather than sandpaper, sharpeningsupplies.com has a very coarse silicon carbide stone that they call “the grinder stone.” They recommend that it be used with water rather than oil.

I have had one for a few months now. It is the fastest stone I’ve ever used, and seems to stay flat a bit more easily than my coarse Crystolon. So far I’ve mostly used it for rehabbing some ridiculously dull old chisels and a couple of Kent pattern hewing hatchets. The scratch depth seems comparable to my broken-in DMT extra coarse, but it cuts significantly faster than the DMT. The 300 grit side of your Trend stone should be able to remove the scratches fairly quickly, I would expect.

[Jack Dover]

If a stone is desired rather than sandpaper, sharpeningsupplies.com has a very coarse silicon carbide stone that they call “the grinder stone.” They recommend that it be used with water rather than oil.

I have had one for a few months now. It is the fastest stone I’ve ever used, and seems to stay flat a bit more easily than my coarse Crystolon.

I got this stone too. My experience is somewhat different.

I had to send this first stone back, because it had soft spots taking more than 75% of the surface and it seems they went all the way through to the other side. Soft spots are a problem, but not because they're scratchy - they never stay flat, always dish down. Sharpening supplies has one of the best customer service, actually, I initially reached out with a question and their representative just sent me a new stone, no extra questions asked. The second stone also had some soft spots, but they were superficial and almost gone now.

The other problem is this stone glazes over fast. It indeed stays flat longer than Nortons coarse crystolon (which is really is never flat), but it stops grinding very soon. When this happens, it stops cutting and starts polishing, producing almost a flawless bright mirror. I'm aware about this particular property of oilstones, therefore my oilstones come in pairs, one is glazed, the other is refreshed often. But this particular stone glazes over within minutes of use. In this sense it behaves like a waterstone: needs to be refreshed with a flattening stone prior usage and wants lots and lots of runny lapping fluid. Sharpening supplies recommendation is to use it with water indeed, so idk, maybe it clogs because of oil? Crushed crystals form quite thick paste quite fast, so maybe using it over a pond, constantly flushing with lots of water is the intended mode of operation?

[Michael Bulatowicz]

I got this stone too. My experience is somewhat different.

I had to send this first stone back, because it had soft spots taking more than 75% of the surface and it seems they went all the way through to the other side. Soft spots are a problem, but not because they're scratchy - they never stay flat, always dish down. Sharpening supplies has one of the best customer service, actually, I initially reached out with a question and their representative just sent me a new stone, no extra questions asked. The second stone also had some soft spots, but they were superficial and almost gone now.

The other problem is this stone glazes over fast. It indeed stays flat longer than Nortons coarse crystolon (which is really is never flat), but it stops grinding very soon. When this happens, it stops cutting and starts polishing, producing almost a flawless bright mirror. I'm aware about this particular property of oilstones, therefore my oilstones come in pairs, one is glazed, the other is refreshed often. But this particular stone glazes over within minutes of use. In this sense it behaves like a waterstone: needs to be refreshed with a flattening stone prior usage and wants lots and lots of runny lapping fluid. Sharpening supplies recommendation is to use it with water indeed, so idk, maybe it clogs because of oil? Crushed crystals form quite thick paste quite fast, so maybe using it over a pond, constantly flushing with lots of water is the intended mode of operation?

Interesting. It seems that you've had quite a different experience.

Among the differences, it sounds like you may be using heavy pressure, which is not my typical practice.

I haven't observed any soft spots on mine, but again I'm not bearing down--nor am I saying that is what you're doing.

I only use it with water; it's quite porous, and I do periodically flood the stone with water during use so that the surface stays wet. Mine only seems to build up a slurry if I apply pressure beyond a certain threshold. The same is true of my coarse Crystolon, but my Crystolon seems to slurry somewhat more easily (used with oil) than my "grinder stone" (used with water). The slurry on my grinder stone doesn't seem to cause any problems, nor does it glaze the stone; a quick rinse and it's washed away.

With both stones, I modulate pressure while sharpening to control whether and where it slurries. I find that when they slow down (which takes a while--I haven't tumed it, but certainly more than mere minutes of use), generating a slurry (which if left on the stone can be expected to break down into finer particles if the pressure remains heavy) will speed it back up. Controlling how and where I generate a slurry also helps keep the stone reasonably flat. I have never specifically lapped either of these stones, nor have I ever "refreshed" them with a flattening stone. I cannot say I've seen a need.

I've only ever used one of each ("grinder stone" and Crystolon), so perhaps my examples of each are not typical and the comparison is dependent on which example of each you end up getting. I also may not be using them with the same pressure or the same steel(s); this may make a difference, too.

I'm curious: have you experimented with how the stone responds to different steels and different amounts of pressure?

[Justin Kwong]

Wow, that is a large stone. How do you lap it?

[Jack Dover]

Wow, that is a large stone. How do you lap it?

The stone is 12" long, so a regular 3"x8" inexpensive diamond plate works just fine.

[Richard Coers]

I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...

I don't understand? Lay down a canvas tarp. The sparks are dead by the time they reach the floor. Or use a wet wheel Tormek

[Tom Benson]

For what it's worth, I've found the Trend diamond stone to be incredibly slow. I'm not an expert, but I suspect that's a poor stone that wears quickly. Sandpaper is the option that worked best for me. If you can't afford a granite slab or float glass, I've found some tiles at Home Depot to be pretty flat and they're only a few bucks apiece. I would bring a straight edge with you to go through them to make sure the one you get is flat.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm in an apartment and using a public workshop; grinder isn't really an option...

I don't understand? Lay down a canvas tarp. The sparks are dead by the time they reach the floor. Or use a wet wheel Tormek

Richard, you seem to be missing something here. James doesn't have any place to set up a grinder. He doesn't appear to have a shop set up in his apartment. He is using a public workspace that may not be secure. He may also be in a financial place that many of us have been in where investing in a grinder, even if he had a place to use one, is not practical at this time. I have been there.

There are other ways to solve his current needs without having the luxury of a powered sharpening system.

jtk