Contributor
Adding to the mentions of float glass and sandpaper, I recently got three pieces of float glass from a glass store, 3"x8" each, for about 18 dollars total. I called and they cut exactly what size I wanted. I use adhesive backed sandpaper for coarse grinding when needed. I have 3M Stikit Gold paper in a few different coarse grits. If that is of interest to you, and you have a glass company nearby, try giving them a call.
Contributor
By chance I managed to damage the edge of a smoother iron, Moulson Bros. tapered, laminated. The pictures show the grinding progress. The stones are a vintage Carborundum combi stone and a Washita. Pics are damaged iron, after coarse, after fine, after washita, after strop. I think the grinding took about 15min, not very long, just used the stone, no sandpaper prep or dragging the granite slab onto the bench. The rest of the sharpening was typical.
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[OP]
Contributor
LOL nice. Tormek would actually be awesome. I can keep that in one of the cupboards in my tiny kitchen...
Member
I got this stone too. My experience is somewhat different.Originally Posted by Michael Bulatowicz
I had to send this first stone back, because it had soft spots taking more than 75% of the surface and it seems they went all the way through to the other side. Soft spots are a problem, but not because they're scratchy - they never stay flat, always dish down. Sharpening supplies has one of the best customer service, actually, I initially reached out with a question and their representative just sent me a new stone, no extra questions asked. The second stone also had some soft spots, but they were superficial and almost gone now.
The other problem is this stone glazes over fast. It indeed stays flat longer than Nortons coarse crystolon (which is really is never flat), but it stops grinding very soon. When this happens, it stops cutting and starts polishing, producing almost a flawless bright mirror. I'm aware about this particular property of oilstones, therefore my oilstones come in pairs, one is glazed, the other is refreshed often. But this particular stone glazes over within minutes of use. In this sense it behaves like a waterstone: needs to be refreshed with a flattening stone prior usage and wants lots and lots of runny lapping fluid. Sharpening supplies recommendation is to use it with water indeed, so idk, maybe it clogs because of oil? Crushed crystals form quite thick paste quite fast, so maybe using it over a pond, constantly flushing with lots of water is the intended mode of operation?
Member
This is an interesting progression. My washita is somewhere in medium - fine range, depending on a state of a particular stone. It can do almost as fine as India, but not even close to the hard\black arkie. What's your fine stone I wonder?
Contributor
Wow, that is a large stone. How do you lap it?
Contributor
Not as much pressure on the washita after removing the burr, finish with the strop. I've tried a translucent and even a black ark after the washita and if it gets any sharper it is not noticeable in use, it just adds time to the sharpening.
Friend of the Creek
I had the same problem and often simply do not want to set up the grinder, adjust the tool rest and fool with it. KME makes a 100 grit diamond stone.
Regards,
Tom
Member
300 grit is a too fine to be considered a grinding grit, it's rather the beginning of polishing sequence - remember this is a different scale than a waterstone. Another thing is that diamonds are slow. You could get a 150 grit plate, I think this is the coarsest a diamond plate could get, but it still will be slower than other abrasives. It will also be quite scratchy, not exactly sure why, vaguely remember it's some sort of a manufacturing process limitation.
I personally think that the coarsest, grinding grit is in 60-80 grit range. One option is sandpaper, a fresh sheet of SiCa 80 grit will make a quick job of pretty much any nick you might get on a woodworking tool. You could go fancy and get a zirconia belt or something. With a sharpening guide 80 grit totally can re-grind a primary bevel, you'll even get a few sparks.
But maybe you like unification, then another option would be loose diamond on a substrate. There's a guy on the red forum who swears by loose diamonds, his claim is that 5-6µ paste on cast iron is a very fast abrasive. He's using a grinder though, so not sure what exactly "very fast" applies to. If memory serves me right, Derek tried every abrasive out there, probably he could provide more context than me. There are pastes with about 50-60µ diamonds, that's around 80-100 ANSI grit, should be fast enough.
And if noice is the primary concern, I would consider Veritas power sharpener. It's the same type as Worksharp, just better quality and has jigs of various cutters. Or maybe consider some kind of a small grinder. A small Craftsman universal grinder is still sold on ebay, often "new in a box" (since it was available in Sears stores not too long ago), there are wet horizontal Makita grinders or similar Wen grinders. These are low rpm, most of them are wet (there's a container for water or a dripper), about as loud as a kitchen appliance, but come with all the risks of buying second hand. Here's a random ebay listing for the Craftsman sharpener. There are other models, older or newer, and a ton of replicas from other companies. This is another type, from Wen.
Last edited by Jack Dover; 04-29-2022 at 1:11 PM.
Member
Yeah, I also don't think a woodworker has to go higher than a soft Arkansas, since it produces sufficient polish to move to strop right away. It's just I do washita - soft Arkansas/fine India and was surprised to see you do the opposite. I guess it could work, one could own two washitas, one would be constantly refreshed, the other would be worn and flattened only occasionally. Or there could be a particularly fine washita.
Member
Apparently Home Depot sells glass shelves in various sizes. They're quite thick, flat, I think the smallest one is 7"x18" long, sold for ~18$, which is a good size for backs flattening.
Member
The stone is 12" long, so a regular 3"x8" inexpensive diamond plate works just fine.
Contributor
Interesting. It seems that you've had quite a different experience.
Among the differences, it sounds like you may be using heavy pressure, which is not my typical practice.
I haven't observed any soft spots on mine, but again I'm not bearing down--nor am I saying that is what you're doing.
I only use it with water; it's quite porous, and I do periodically flood the stone with water during use so that the surface stays wet. Mine only seems to build up a slurry if I apply pressure beyond a certain threshold. The same is true of my coarse Crystolon, but my Crystolon seems to slurry somewhat more easily (used with oil) than my "grinder stone" (used with water). The slurry on my grinder stone doesn't seem to cause any problems, nor does it glaze the stone; a quick rinse and it's washed away.
With both stones, I modulate pressure while sharpening to control whether and where it slurries. I find that when they slow down (which takes a while--I haven't tumed it, but certainly more than mere minutes of use), generating a slurry (which if left on the stone can be expected to break down into finer particles if the pressure remains heavy) will speed it back up. Controlling how and where I generate a slurry also helps keep the stone reasonably flat. I have never specifically lapped either of these stones, nor have I ever "refreshed" them with a flattening stone. I cannot say I've seen a need.
I've only ever used one of each ("grinder stone" and Crystolon), so perhaps my examples of each are not typical and the comparison is dependent on which example of each you end up getting. I also may not be using them with the same pressure or the same steel(s); this may make a difference, too.
I'm curious: have you experimented with how the stone responds to different steels and different amounts of pressure?
Member
A Washita is quite a bit finer than a fine India, and will even produce a finer edge than a Soft Ark most of the time. It has the distinct advantage of being both faster and finer than a Soft Ark.
I never use a Soft after a Washita for that reason. The Washita replaces the Soft Ark.
If you sharpen on a Washita -> Leather Strop and then Arkansas -> Leather Strop, you'll notice what I mean. The Washita will generally give you a much finer edge, though this depends somewhat on the condition of the particular stones.
A good black or transluscent will improve the edge after either, though. And, if you're sharpening razors, a full progression with some middle stone between the Washita or Soft and the Black/Transluscent is kind of necessary (a "Hard" but not "True Hard" Arkansas being the middle stone, generally). So, the Washita definitely doesn't get as fine as a true hard Arkansas, but it's typically capable of getting somewhere near, say, one of Dan's "Hard" Arkansas stones.
Last edited by Luke Dupont; 04-30-2022 at 3:24 AM.
Contributor
The Washita I used is the coarsest or softest of all the washitas I have. The other ones feel "harder". None of mine are labeled, so I don't know how they were graded by the manufacturer. When they are labeled, the sticker on the ends of the stone, if present, indicates the grade. My understanding is that the coarser grades are more desirable than the fine/hard grades because they're faster. The ones that I have that feel hard don't bite as well and are slow, so don't get used much.
Pressure makes a difference, see what results you get when you apply different pressures. Like really press to remove metal, reduce to polish the edge. You can feel the stone grinding the metal with more pressure, and sort of just skating the stone with less pressure.
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