Shaper cutter selection assistance needed

[Rod Sheridan]

More knives in the cutter means higher feed rates, cut quality will remain the same.

The back fence Brent refers to is what I call an outboard fence, a fence close to the operator, where the work is fed between the fence and the cutter, and profiles and dimensions in one pass. You can only do this with a stock feeder.

Here are some photographs of me using an outboard fence with a stock feeder to make flooring.

A2C8F53E-7386-42C7-B692-AF7B8D7E8F73.jpg7EF25C42-5F02-43F7-9609-4BA28BAF51FF.jpg254A96FE-E6C8-4979-9136-1A36615B509E.jpg

You can cut one cheek of a tenon at once using a rebate head, or both using two tenon cutters or one adjustable groover turned inside out.

The shaper is the most indispensable machine in my shop…..Regards, Rod

[brent stanley]

Brent,

I'm reading your post with great curiosity; since you offered, I do have a few questions to ask



I'm noticing that some of the rebate heads have 4 cutters to the combi head's 2. Wouldn't that result in a difference in cut quality and cutter life? Such as:
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutt...eads/CBS004V3/
vs
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutt...eads/CBS002V3/




I look forward to learning more of the capabilities and how to integrate the machine into projects, your comments are really interesting to hear. Could you elaborate on how and what the use of a 'back fence' entails?


This is a rebate block in conjunction with groovers, or two groovers set on the spindle at once?



Could you explain what corrugated and serrated blocks are and their significance? What about when people say 'Euro block' is that another term for insert cutterhead?



Will probably take you up on that when I'm ready to order specific cutterheads and profiles. Thanks!

Hi Nick, working on my wee little phone, so it's a bit hard to so multiple quotes but I'll try to answer questions one at a time:

All else equal, 4 cutters will do a couple of main things for you. It will permit a faster feed rate for a given surface finish but that's not terribly significant for normal feed rates, in low production, but what is significant is it leaves the option open for "dual sheer" which can really help. This means that the shear angle the knives are placed on is reversed every station around the cutting circle. This makes it more likely it will get through challenging grain with a good finish.


There are differences in jargon around the world but a back fence is referred to as an outboard fence too, but some confuse that with "outfeed" but once integrated into your workflow it's (IMO) a safer way to bring final boards down to final width than a hand fed cabinet saw and can give a better finish. I arrange my workflow and project load to allow me to bring stock down to final width and thickness in a couple of steps, with the first step leaving it only say 1/8" over size. When the time comes to bring it down to final dimensions, placing a straight edge (the outboard fence) a set distance from the maximum extent of the cutting arc allows you to powerfeed stock against the cutter rotation and do the equivalent of ripping to width on your cabinet saw...but with a power feeder that keeps fingers farther from sharp bits and knives that may give you a superior finish. Additionally, some blocks will permit adding a gentle chamfer and/or mild radius at the same time in the same pass! Normally this fence is added between the operator station and the block, but since you're dealing with the apex of a circle, there isn't actually any need for it to be anywhere in particular per se, though many aspects of your other machine assessories may dictate the most practical place to put it. I have one for the big machine that locks down with the Dovetail ways and I have an assortment of spacers that allow me predictably place it, whereas with the small machine I just clamp a straight edge to the table and carry on! It really only takes minutes to set up using a spacer of your final width. With many cutters removing the whole edge you can actually machine your profile WHILE bringing down to final width...ie. at the same time, saving a step! Sorry if that's too long winded....but that's still only a superficial summary! Doing this (and other operations!) incorrectly can give you a dangerous suborbital lumber launcher so don't use this paragraph as instructions, it's just the high points of the potential for the system.

I actually just posted a video on short tenoning on the spindle moulder which explains some of the options I have used for short tenons. I got a lot of questions from folks and just found it easier to do a video! It's not intended as an exhaustive list, nor to cover every detail, but tried to hit the high points. I will do a video on longer (3"+tenons) soon too. Let me know if you find it helpful.

Corrugated and serrated blocks are the same thing just different terminology on the two sides of the pond. The terms refer to how the removable knife is held in the block, in this case with nesting corrugations and a "wedge block". These blocks along with many others are very very versatile because they allow you to machine custom profiles and not be limited to whatever off the shelf profiles are available from a supplier. That said, many suppliers offer a number of profiles "off the shelf" that can serve your needs. Limiter heads (like Euroblocks for example) also hold replaceable HSS knives that are customizable but are held in the block differently (some find them easier to swap out) but the main benefit of both is the ability to buy one block, and use it to make an almost infinite variety of profiles just by changing out the relatively inexpensive knives. There are reasons why you would choose other options (like dedicated carbide insert heads for example) over corrugated/limiter heads but those reasons would depend on things like material being machined, work flow, volume produced, jigs and machines to be used etc etc etc....

Terminology can be a proper pain, but the term "euroblock" most often refers to a particular size of "limiter head or limiter block" that is designed to use the 40mm x 40mm knives that are most common in NA. Limiter blocks are also available in much larger sizes and function the exact same way, but for some reason the ones that take the 40mm x 40mm knives got their own special name!

Some people call an insert head any head into which you "insert" a replaceable knife, whereas some reserve that term for those that use carbide "inserts" (the wee, thin little tips) and call the heads that take customizable HSS knives limiter heads, though it should be pointed out that not all versions of these accept limiters so isn't a bomb proof name choice!

Anyway,sorry to write War and Peace at you but it's a big new world. That book will really help and so would Joe's course...it gets great reviews....the location's ok too.

[Nick Crivello]

Brent-

Think I just figured who that Dovetail Timberworks guy is…. Been watching your videos already!

[brent stanley]

Brent-

Think I just figured who that Dovetail Timberworks guy is…. Been watching your videos already!

Please excuse the covid haircut and paunch!

If you do the Instagram thing, there's lots of shaper content there too.

Cheers,
B

[Kevin Jenness]

I have a comatic dc40 feeder, and its excellent, but i am not as firm of a believer of "you have to have a feeder for a shaper". Feeders arent fool proof. I once had to shut down an operation at an alarming rate when my incorrect setup of the feeder allowed the work piece to begin to turn sideways and dip into the cutterhead. In other words, kind of a nightmare scenario. Thankfully, i shut things down half a second after i saw what was about to happen. Its also kind of a PITA to lift my feeder into place and get it setup correctly. I often hand feed parts when i only have a dozen to shape. As your confidence grows, it isnt dangerous or nerve-wracking. If you are worried, i recommend making a false-fence/zero clearance fence face. This simple jig makes the machine very safe for handfeeding profiles. Thats my opinion, if you are strapped for cash i would spend the money on cutters before $1,000+ on a feeder and waiting on future cutterheads.

Nothing is foolproof. It's a really good idea to reef on the fence and powerfeed and check the spindle lock and tool clearance before powering up.


A zero clearance fence or something like the Aigner that offers stock support close to the cutters is a good thing in any case. It might have prevented a bad kickback in the scenario above. For hand-feeding, hold-downs, guards, push blocks and man-rated tooling will increase safety.

The shop rule I mentioned above about having someone else check setups came in after the owner spun up a corrugated cutterhead without tightening the gibs and launched a knife into the wall 30 feet away. He was banished to the office after that. There are a lot of variables in shaper use to be aware of for safety, more so than with most other common machines.

A shaper with cutters and no feeder is better than one with a feeder and no cutters, but a feeder is safer and gives a smoother and more consistent result. I use the feeder whenever possible. Fortunately Nick's machine came with one. That looks like a nice clean machine that should serve well.

[Jared Sankovich]

A back /outboard fence can be anything laying around that is straight and thinner than the stock you are running. This is setup for a climb cut but it works conventionally. You can't use a outboard fence and certainly can't climb cut without a feeder.
20220416_155322.jpg

And a pic of a corrugated head.
20220416_155342.jpg

[Mitch schiffer]

If I had to start over buying cutters I would buy a groover, rabbiting head, a spiral insert head with template bearing, and a good set of cabinet door cutters. From there I would just buy cutters as needed. I prefer a dedicated cutter for each profile rather then a corrugated head and knifes. I have grown to like the freeborn cutters the best.

[Jared Sankovich]

If I had to start over buying cutters I would buy a groover, rabbiting head, a spiral insert head with template bearing, and a good set of cabinet door cutters. From there I would just buy cutters as needed. I prefer a dedicated cutter for each profile rather then a corrugated head and knifes. I have grown to like the freeborn cutters the best.

It's hard to beat corrugated for one offs or moulding profiles.

[Mike Stelts]

I haven't needed custom profiles; but, this conversation has me wondering... Can't custom profiles be made to fit a Euroblock?

[brent stanley]

I haven't needed custom profiles; but, this conversation has me wondering... Can't custom profiles be made to fit a Euroblock?

Absolutely, yup.

[Mike Kees]

Biggest difference is the height of profiles needed. I have corrugated heads 2",3"4" and 6" tall. My Euro blocks are 40mm. They come in other sizes as well but seem to be available mostly in 40mm high with some 50mm knives available. Oella saw and Tool will make up "combi" corrugated cutters that work in a corg head on your shaper but also have holes to fit the pin pattern (bolt holes) for my General International molder as well.

[Jared Sankovich]

I haven't needed custom profiles; but, this conversation has me wondering... Can't custom profiles be made to fit a Euroblock?

They can but it's considerably less common, costs more per inch and you still end up with a thinner knife. Most are using off the shelf 40mm blanks which like most of the commodity 40mm/50mm knives are not the greatest steel. Imho 40mm knives are great for stock profiles since they are dirt cheap. Anything other than stock it's typically cheaper for corrugated. That doesn't touch the 3x thickness profile projection limits (corrugated can have a lot more projection simply for the fact that 3/8 corrugared steel exists, and heads are availible in all heights possible.

[Jared Sankovich]

Biggest difference is the height of profiles needed. I have corrugated heads 2",3"4" and 6" tall. My Euro blocks are 40mm. They come in other sizes as well but seem to be available mostly in 40mm high with some 50mm knives available. Oella saw and Tool will make up "combi" corrugated cutters that work in a corg head on your shaper but also have holes to fit the pin pattern (bolt holes) for my General International molder as well.

The hussey pattern corrugated knives are nice but unless you have a 25? degree corrugated head the profile cut isn't the same between the moulder and shaper.

[Warren Lake]

every type of tooling has its working parameters. Like Mike I had a 6" corg head made for the woodmaster then any of that tooling can be used on the shaper or on the woodmaster. Simple machine but wood lays on its back, rubber rollers in and outfeed and a gear drive feed. Dial in whatever speed rater you want.

There are rules for projection and you can get corg up to 3/8" thick and Serrated edge same. Usual past rule is 4 times projection of the thickness though often seen it exceeded sometimes many times. In the old serrated collars the steel went right through the head and could go to the other side if it did not extend out. In corrugated it goes as deep as the groove in the head permits.

[Greg Quenneville]

Custom cutters can be made for a “Euroblock” type head. I will bang the drum for Whitehill again because their steel is excellent, and thick, and their blocks have limiters.

They made custom cutters for me in carbide for my 55x120 block.

Oella Saw also supplied me with a big cutter for my Schmidt corrugated head.
Dave at Oella is my other recommendation…plus he carries Freeborn and other brands too. It should be telling that I am willing to go around the world to deal with those two suppliers when I have a woodworking store 35 minutes away.

There are lots of suppliers of Euroblock cutters. Most of them are short use hobby stuff.