Hammer A3-41 Brand New - Infeed Not Flat

[Josh Baldwin]

So I just got my A3-41 and after an hour or so I got the outfeed dialed in perfectly with the segmented cutter heads.

Then I moved on to the infeed and there is a major problem, at least to me with my limited experience. So basically the infeed is perfectly flat across its length near the fence, but on the operator's side there is a large gully. It starts about 3 or so inches from the cutter head and ends about 6 inches or so from the beginning of the infeed. This gully is about 13 thou or so. When I check around the middle of the infeed between the operator's side and the fence this gully is about half this much.

I talked to Felder support and they're very helpful, but at the end of the day none of the adjustments I can make to try to achieve coplanar will remove this gully. So when I get the infeed first few inches from the cutterhead section coplanar to the outfeed that's great, except that gully is always there. I'm going to call them tomorrow to discuss further, but I'm pretty frustrated at this point and would love some advice on whether this is a big deal or not.

They said that their tolerances running diagonal across the infeed are 13 thou. Which first off seems like a lot, but secondly how does this matter if half of my table (the operator's side) is not even close to flat. Won't this cause all kinds of issues? I'm waiting on a new dust hose before running some boards through and it'll be here on Friday, but again any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Rod Sheridan]

The test is to edge joint two pieces of material between 3 and 4 feet long on the part of the table you think is good and place them edge to edge.

Acceptable results are touching at the ends with no, or a very tiny gap in the middle. ( I normally set mine and customers machine to have a tiny gap)

If the above is true, now try it where you think you’ll have a problem, the results should be the same.

Having seen this, I don’t expect that you’re going to have a problem…….Regards, Rod

[William Rae]

I have owned my A3-41 since 2006 and it’s a great machine. However, I went through hell trying to get it readjusted. Some of the problem was self-inflicted because my problem was due to worn out blades. I tried to fix it by adjusting the outfield table. Big mistake and in the end cost me a $450 Felder service call. The outfield table should be adjusted by Felder when you receive the machine and should never be moved.
Check your owners manual and you will find info about making a test cut. The result should be a spring joint with a hollow of no more than .010 inch. This is important to insure that the ends of your boards always come together. When the Felder Tech adjusted my machine as he knew it should be done, that is coplanar, he couldn’t get the machine to produce the correct results for the test cut. After many attempts and calling Felder, the tech realised that the infeed end of the infeed table needed to droop down slightly to get the correct results for the test cut. Once he dialed this in the machine has worked correctly ever since. I hope this is helpful to you and avoids a service call but if you can’t get it adjusted then a service call, even though expensive, will save you a lot of time.

[Josh Baldwin]

I have owned my A3-41 since 2006 and it’s a great machine. However, I went through hell trying to get it readjusted. Some of the problem was self-inflicted because my problem was due to worn out blades. I tried to fix it by adjusting the outfield table. Big mistake and in the end cost me a $450 Felder service call. The outfield table should be adjusted by Felder when you receive the machine and should never be moved.
Check your owners manual and you will find info about making a test cut. The result should be a spring joint with a hollow of no more than .010 inch. This is important to insure that the ends of your boards always come together. When the Felder Tech adjusted my machine as he knew it should be done, that is coplanar, he couldn’t get the machine to produce the correct results for the test cut. After many attempts and calling Felder, the tech realised that the infeed end of the infeed table needed to droop down slightly to get the correct results for the test cut. Once he dialed this in the machine has worked correctly ever since. I hope this is helpful to you and avoids a service call but if you can’t get it adjusted then a service call, even thought expensive, will save you a lot of time.

Thanks for the info. Yea I don't mind making the adjustments to be honest. My problem is that there's no adjustment that will make the actual infeed table a flat or even close to flat surface. I'll try to make some test cuts tomorrow, but I don't see how I'm going to get good results with a giant hollow on one side of the table.

[Josh Baldwin]

The test is to edge joint two pieces of material between 3 and 4 feet long on the part of the table you think is good and place them edge to edge.

Acceptable results are touching at the ends with no, or a very tiny gap in the middle. ( I normally set mine and customers machine to have a tiny gap)

If the above is true, now try it where you think you’ll have a problem, the results should be the same.

Having seen this, I don’t expect that you’re going to have a problem…….Regards, Rod

Thanks for the feedback Rod. So the only question I have I guess is if that large of a hollow on the table doesn't have a negative effect on the jointing ability then why bother having the tables even close to flat to begin with? I'm definitely not an expert on jointing, so I really do mean that question sincerely. If one side of the table is flat and produces great results and the other side of the table has a 13 thou hollow only 2 inches from the cutterhead and is 12+ inches long and that also produces great results, then I guess I don't understand where flatness/coplanar would matter at all. But again I don't mean this to come across flippantly, I really am confused as to why it won't matter.

[Mel Fulks]

Once you get the material several inches on to outfeed table all downward pressure should be on the outfeed table. I like to use a block of
wood with screws protruding a little to propel the piece . In feed table is basically a saw-horse.

[Brian Tymchak]

...After many attempts and calling Felder, the tech realised that the infeed end of the infeed table needed to droop down slightly to get the correct results for the test cut.

Are you saying that your tables are now slightly off coplanar and this is considered to be a correct setup to get a slight sprung joint?

[Ben Schmidt]

I love how companies always say their tolerances are +/- (insert the variance you measured here)

[Phillip Mitchell]

The diagonal tolerance is 0.013” out of flat?? That’s a pretty poor level of precision if you ask me. I can stick a 40” straight edge diagonally on my 12” Oliver and measure less than 0.002” out of flat and this is a machine from 1940 with some miles on her.

Are you saying that the infeed is bowed down along the length mostly / only on the side closest to the operator but flat on the back/fence side? That’s an odd bow to deal with on a machine that has no use/wear.

I would imagine that you might see some issues with that if edge jointing on that side of the table. Yes, all the pressure goes to the outfeed side fairly early on in the process but I could see some scenarios with certain lengths where that may throw things off more than it should.

How flat is the infeed table across its width right before the cutterhead?

[Dave Roock]

First, test some boards & see results. Without that, you do not know if there is a true problem. Looking forward to owning a A3-31 myself.

[Rod Sheridan]

Are you saying that your tables are now slightly off coplanar and this is considered to be a correct setup to get a slight sprung joint?

Yes, that’s how they come set from the factory and we set them to that measurement in the field…Regards Rod

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for the feedback Rod. So the only question I have I guess is if that large of a hollow on the table doesn't have a negative effect on the jointing ability then why bother having the tables even close to flat to begin with? I'm definitely not an expert on jointing, so I really do mean that question sincerely. If one side of the table is flat and produces great results and the other side of the table has a 13 thou hollow only 2 inches from the cutterhead and is 12+ inches long and that also produces great results, then I guess I don't understand where flatness/coplanar would matter at all. But again I don't mean this to come across flippantly, I really am confused as to why it won't matter.

Hi Josh, maybe I mis-understood you.

My understanding is that you have a hollow in the infeed table that does not extend all the way to the edge of the table next to the cutter head?

If so, the material will not dip into the head prior to being supported by the outfeed table…Regards, Rod

[Warren Lake]

I couldnt remember the SCM, only ever set it up once when it was misbehaving. When done it turned out it was the wood. I just checked the infeed and thinnest feeler gauge I have .0015 and I could not get it under the straight edge from end to end anywhere, straight edge running 90 degrees to length.

Lengthways and cross ways first first 4" lead edge more middle could almost get it under but just the tip barely, likely .001 might go. Consider leading edge most people never run support infeed or outfeed it makes sense from many years of wood sort of tipping and rubbing on that edge it should be down over time. like water on stones in a river. I dont know what specs are on these machines but those are the measures I found.

[Josh Baldwin]

Hi Josh, maybe I mis-understood you.

My understanding is that you have a hollow in the infeed table that does not extend all the way to the edge of the table next to the cutter head?

If so, the material will not dip into the head prior to being supported by the outfeed table…Regards, Rod

Hey Rod, so the 1.5"-2" next to the cutter head is flat and then the hollow starts. My concern was what if I'm jointing smaller pieces like for rails and stiles as an example and it's a 12" long board. Won't this kind of ramp upwards slightly from the hollow leading to inconsistent jointing? The blade guard will basically cover most of that flat 1.5"-2" section, so I don't really have any infeed that's flat to press down on a bit before transitioning my weight across to the outfeed. I hope that all makes sense and I really appreciate your advice.

[Josh Baldwin]

The diagonal tolerance is 0.013” out of flat?? That’s a pretty poor level of precision if you ask me. I can stick a 40” straight edge diagonally on my 12” Oliver and measure less than 0.002” out of flat and this is a machine from 1940 with some miles on her.

Are you saying that the infeed is bowed down along the length mostly / only on the side closest to the operator but flat on the back/fence side? That’s an odd bow to deal with on a machine that has no use/wear.

I would imagine that you might see some issues with that if edge jointing on that side of the table. Yes, all the pressure goes to the outfeed side fairly early on in the process but I could see some scenarios with certain lengths where that may throw things off more than it should.

How flat is the infeed table across its width right before the cutterhead?

Yea that's what they said, seems like a large tolerance to me as well. Yes, it's flat on the fence side. On the operator's side I basically have a flat 2" from the cutter head, then the big hollow, then a flat 4" at the beginning of the infeed. This hollow is basically halved when checking the middle depth between the operator's side and fence side.

I'll check the infeed table across the width tomorrow and report back, but I think it'll be pretty flat for the closest inch or so to the cutterhead.