Jointing frustration

[Jason Buresh]

Tonight while trying to joint the edges of some 8/4 poplar no matter what I did the board fought me. It was one of the most frustrating moments I've ever had in the shop.

I am trying to make a chair seat. I have never used lumber this thick, and I just fought and fought and fought with it. I tried my no 8, no 7, 5-1/2, no 5. I would either get gaps or a twist etc. I checked often with a square and I was doing ok there.

One thing I did change is I did not prep a face first like I normally do. I was going to try and plane the edges first and the flatten and smooth the faces once the seat was made.

After walking away and thinking things over I think this may be my issue. Is not prepping a face first screwing everything up? After thinking about it I thinking it may be giving me bad feedback on the square.

I have had success jointing edges in the past with other lumber. But for some reason tonight the stars weren't aligned.

Anyone have any tips for thicker lumber? Any other ideas?

[Luke Dupont]

If you didn't prep the face, there may have been twist in the board that was screwing you up no matter what you did. If you kept planing the board square to its face (checking with a square) and the face wasn't flat and free of twist, it'll never match up with a piece that is actually flat and free of twist.

[Scott Winners]

Poplar is usually fairly obedient, though I can see tearout when jointing on reversing grain.

Were you starting with 8/4 roughsawn? Is your rough stock visibly straight, just rough sawn?

I would think of poplar as an excellent introduction to 8/4 hardwoods. How thick are your shavings and what are the nominal dimensions of your work piece?

[Scott Clausen]

I think you would need to flatten at least two sides to get it jointed. I would just go ahead and get it S4S so you have some reference points.

[les winter]

You would experience the same problem at a power jointer. Two flat faces are required.

[James Pallas]

Forget the square. Get your board set up roughly squared on your bench on in the face vice. Get out your winding sticks and straight edge. Plane a flat edge. That edge is now your reference surface for all other work.
Jim

[Luke Dupont]

Forget the square. Get your board set up roughly squared on your bench on in the face vice. Get out your winding sticks and straight edge. Plane a flat edge. That edge is now your reference surface for all other work.
Jim

Better to do the face first before the edge, and make the edge conform to that, as it's very hard to make a 6 inch surface confirm to a 3/4 inch surface if the angle is slightly out.

Unless they're all the same width, then it doesn't matter...

[James Pallas]

Better to do the face first before the edge, and make the edge conform to that, as it's very hard to make a 6 inch surface confirm to a 3/4 inch surface if the angle is slightly out.

Unless they're all the same width, then it doesn't matter...

The OP said he was building up a chair seat. Sometimes it is easier to do a glue up first. If you are going to take an adz to it you don’t need to plane the face. All you need is glue surfaces. If using machines it’s fine. Hand planing is different.
Jim

[Ron Bontz]

I would have to 2nd having the wider surface face flat first. In your case the underside of the chair bottom pieces. Then joint the glue edges square to the flat. Once you think you have the chair bottom face flat, lay it on a known flat surface to check for twist or wobble. Glue together, re flatten bottom if necessary and proceed with the rest of the process.
Best wishes

[Daniel Culotta]

When I glue-up before flattening faces, the square stays stowed. A straight edge and winding sticks on the edge are all you need to focus on. I do get the edge square-ish by eye to the rough face, and then use winding sticks on the edge to get any twist out, and a straight edge to remove cup or bow. Basically, treat the edge like a mini face.

Then, as you’re planning, once the glue is dry you flatten the whole panel face, get the other parallel, then lay out your seat pattern etc.

Is this (straight edge + winding sticks on the edge) what you were already trying that wasn’t working?

[Andrew Hughes]

I like to preach a jointed edge is a flat face to a square edge. That completes a reference edge and is marked before I move on.
when I have smallish boards that need a reference edge I lay the flat face on my bench and shoot the long edge square to the face. Then I don’t need to do the balancing act.
Good Luck

[chris carter]

jointing an edge when the face is rough is a pain because squares are worthless. You kind of have to joint from muscle memory and have faith, or you have to use winding sticks which is super slow. I usually find that it's just faster to flatten the face. It doesn't need to be "show" flat, just "working" flat.

[Jason Buresh]

It sounds like my issue is the lack of prepping a face. I will try prepping the under sides of the seat and then try jointing again.

My thought process was it would be easier to plane the faces after they were glued than to try and make sure they are exactly coplanar in glue up. But I guess even if there is a little imperfection in glue up that is easily cleaned up too.

Live and learn I guess

[Warren Mickley]

I have routinely jointed and glued boards without first flattening any faces for more than 40 years. It is the historical method and it is the efficient method.

The mistake you made was to use a square to assess wind rather than winding sticks. Even if you had planed a face flat before jointing the edge, a square is not as accurate as winding sticks for assessing wind.

[Mike Cornwall]

When jointing an edge without preparing a reference face, what precaution is taken to ensure the jointed panel isn’t so far out of flat that I lose a ton of thickness in facing it?
Thanks in advance, Mike