How long did it take?

[steven c newman]

So..back to the original question of this post...

How long did it take the Old Timers to go from roughed out Lumber, to Finished, delivered piece

Would it be different in a Newport Work Shop...compared to one out in Kentucky, for Instance....

[James Pallas]

I already believe that in order to produce as they did they wasted little time on the unnecessary. As I said in the beginning I’ve seen enough quality of work to know it wasn’t perfect magazine front cover work to today. I’m sure there was some but not all by any means. I have guesses as to things that may have been done and why. Things like I can’t believe that every drawer side went on the shooting board before being dovetailed knowing that it most likely would be planed after. I can believe a drawer front would be fitted before being dovetailed and the dovetails be worked from a baseline. I believe a lot of work was done from a story pole (stick for some).
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

I already believe that in order to produce as they did they wasted little time on the unnecessary.

Most quality antiques built by hand didn't have the unseen surfaces smoothed or finished. Bottoms of drawers and the inside surface of chest of drawers were often not much beyond scrub planing.

Curious thought, did the machine furniture makers use this as a selling point that their furniture was better finished? Better preparation at a lower cost?

Things like I can’t believe that every drawer side went on the shooting board before being dovetailed knowing that it most likely would be planed after. I can believe a drawer front would be fitted before being dovetailed and the dovetails be worked from a baseline. I believe a lot of work was done from a story pole (stick for some).

The stock prep workers probably got a lot more practice cutting square than any of us. If they were paid by the piece it was imperative they not waste a moment of productivity.

One of the first articles I read on making dovetails showed using a square to mark the baseline instead of a marking gauge. This makes working with less than square wood easier. Also in the early Americas the shops cranking out furniture for the masses were likely not trying for 'airtight' super dovetails that many strive for today.

A story pole (or stick) can save a lot of time and mistakes. Things have gotten a lot better over the last half century. During my days in the printing industry there was a customer who complained about the size of something being off by ~1/16" or so. The owner of the shop had a SAE certified yardstick and showed the customer that his tape measure was off. He also showed that different brands of tape measures (at the time) didn't agree. The owner had a tape measure that agreed his certified yardstick.

A story pole eliminates ruler read errors and mismatched measuring device errors.

It is also a great way to quickly make another piece without having to review all the measurements on a drawing.

jtk

[mike stenson]

Measurement has always simply induced error

[James Pallas]

Things we already know about dovetails. 1) the spacing of hand cut can be unequal. 2) The angles vary from one maker to another. 3) The size of the pins is a real variable. I have this and also found that the angle of the tails can vary on individual tails. Not a lot but +/- 5* not unusual. The conclusions I have drawn from this is tails were cut by eye often, no measured layout no markers used. Most I have seen the baseline is clearly marked. Again I have to say I’m not advocating any of this. It’s a challenge for myself to get good enough at this and other tasks in woodworking to use less tools and less tasks.
Jim

[mike stenson]

Things we already know about dovetails. 1) the spacing of hand cut can be unequal. 2) The angles vary from one maker to another. 3) The size of the pins is a real variable. I have this and also found that the angle of the tails can vary on individual tails. Not a lot but +/- 5* not unusual. The conclusions I have drawn from this is tails were cut by eye often, no measured layout no markers used. Most I have seen the baseline is clearly marked. Again I have to say I’m not advocating any of this. It’s a challenge for myself to get good enough at this and other tasks in woodworking to use less tools and less tasks.
Jim

All of my shop furniture dovetails were baseline marked and just cut by eye. It's really only when I'm showing them that I care about things like symmetry. FWIW, I find I naturally saw at about a 1:5 slope. Dovetails, I believe, were a functional joint in the past. They became a decorative one pretty much only with the 'London pattern' as far as I can see, so that's 18th century. A very long time after the joint was introduced.

[Luke Dupont]

Things we already know about dovetails. 1) the spacing of hand cut can be unequal. 2) The angles vary from one maker to another. 3) The size of the pins is a real variable. I have this and also found that the angle of the tails can vary on individual tails. Not a lot but +/- 5* not unusual. The conclusions I have drawn from this is tails were cut by eye often, no measured layout no markers used. Most I have seen the baseline is clearly marked. Again I have to say I’m not advocating any of this. It’s a challenge for myself to get good enough at this and other tasks in woodworking to use less tools and less tasks.
Jim

I think we should be doing this anyway rather than trying to make things look as if they were produced by a machine.

I personally love the organic aesthetic that comes with minor variation and inconsistancy, so long as it's subtle and doesn't negatively impact the work in a meaningful manner. Kind of like how something made by a blacksmith has a charm that a mass produced and perfectly machined piece of hardware just doesn't.

Sometimes I wonder if this rough aesthetic can even be emphasized in a tasteful way that doesn't look sloppy. Maybe I'll try cutting my dovetails at intentionally wildly inconsistent angles and widths, but fit them tightly, just to play with this concept and see how it looks... Maybe combined with some really organic shaping of the piece, this could look quite interesting, and would be something unachievable with a machine.

[Jim Koepke]

Sometimes I wonder if this rough aesthetic can even be emphasized in a tasteful way that doesn't look sloppy.

The pins can be made with different shapes:

100_1110.jpg

Fine WoodWorking had an article on this many years ago. Other shapes were also used.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Such as the "Bermuda" dovetails...

[steven c newman]

Another problem encountered back then...that when the piece was finally done and ready to be delivered...was getting "Me Laird" to actually PAY for it.....

And there were quite a few such "Skin-flints" back then...