Jointer specs questions

[Warren Lake]

the best machines ive bought are 30-50 years old and came from old European cabinetmakers who bought them new. All accessories still with them, plug and play.

[Alex Zeller]

If the OP isn't mechanically inclined then buying a machine with carbide inserts is almost a requirement. First if not used hard they will last years without needing anything. If they do need turning to a fresh edge (or replaced) it's a very simple job. Replacing dull blades and setting them up requires more skill and will need to be done often enough so it's a matter of when, not if. While less noise and longer life is a nice benefit of inserts I'm betting most people buy them simply to avoid the pain of learning how to change blades.

[Charles Coolidge]

I disagree. Neither hobby woodworkers nor typical commercial cabinet shops frequently use highly figured wood for kitchen cabinets and bathroom vanities. Regarding nicks, most people stagger the knives after getting a nick. A careless woodworker can sustain multiple knife nicks and keep using the same knives by staggering them in different ways - same for the planer. A HSS knife will take a deep nick where carbide will shatter because it's so brittle. Carbide inserts are also relatively expensive to replace. HSS jointer knives are practically disposable. Let's talk cabinetry, say kitchen cabinets. Nobody needs carbide inserts to build a single set of kitchen cabinets. HSS knives will stay sharp for your cabinets, bedroom set, dining set, and more, regardless of the wood species. Carbide inserts make sense for a production shop that is building 100s of sets of cabinets per year. They save the down time of blade changes, although rotating a bunch of inserts probably takes more time than swapping a few knives. Carbide inserts make sense for those who process only highly figured wood, but even then the inserts are more useful on the planer than the jointer. You are a hobby woodworker, right? How often did you need swap out the knives on your straight knife jointer? When I bought my first jointer from a local machine supply shop that sold to many hobby woodworkers they told me I would probably get a year out of a set of knives before they needed to be swapped out. They were right, and I work with hard maple, cherry, ash, and white oak so the knives get well used. I concede the points about reduced noise and tearout in highly figured wood but those advantages don't justify an extra $600+ in the purchase price for average Joe hobby woodworker. +1 with Mike Stenson on the hand planes.

Let's agree to disagree but I think you are in the minority opinion on this.

[Holmes Anderson]

Let's agree to disagree but I think you are in the minority opinion on this.

Yes, of course. And I know I am in the minority. As I indicated in my initial post on the thread, my intention was to stir the pot.

[Debbie Battaglia]

I did talk to someone at Grizzly. He said the South Bend is the same exact machine except for a minor part or two, same design, made in the same factory, as the G0495X. I asked why the weight was different then. Didn’t get a convincing answer. He said it’s considered a “premium” machine only because of the longer warranty. I got the feeling he didn’t have a firm grasp of the details though, that I’d hear something different from a different rep. I’ve had a Powermatic cabinet saw for 15 years and it’s been problem free. But I’ve read about fence issues with the Powermatic jointers. Of course that could be a tiny percentage, who knows.

[Alex Zeller]

So the tech's answer had me disappointed in Grizzly. If they want to creat a "premium" line using the South Bend name I would expect it to be a premium product, not just an extra year of warranty. So I looked up the parts list for the SB1091 and the G0495X. I didn't look too hard but of the four things I looked at I noticed is the fence has the same part number (so it's doubtful that it's machined to a tighter spec than the Grizzly). The tables do have a different part number and the outfeed table (didn't look at the price of the infeed table) for the SB is $100 more than the Grizzly so it is possible that it's either a better (thicker) build or maybe machined better than the Grizzly.

The other part I looked at is the bearings for the cutter. The SB uses a one size larger diameter bearing, so that's good. The part number uses the extension "2NSE" which I have only seen used by Nachi brand bearings. Where as the Grizzly uses a "ZZ" bearing with could mean almost any brand. When you put the part number for the bearing into the search bar the picture of the 6203ZZ shows a metal shielded no name bearing for less than $3. The SB part number for the 6204 2NSE shows an NTN bearing for $15. So it seems like the SB has larger nicer bearings.

The final thing I looked at was the motor. There's no picture of them but the SB motor costs $531 while the Grizzle motor $310. I'm guessing that it's also built better. Clearly there are differences. I would expect the salesman to know this stuff.

[Dave Roock]

So the tech's answer had me disappointed in Grizzly. If they want to creat a "premium" line using the South Bend name I would expect it to be a premium product, not just an extra year of warranty. So I looked up the parts list for the SB1091 and the G0495X. I didn't look too hard but of the four things I looked at I noticed is the fence has the same part number (so it's doubtful that it's machined to a tighter spec than the Grizzly). The tables do have a different part number and the outfeed table (didn't look at the price of the infeed table) for the SB is $100 more than the Grizzly so it is possible that it's either a better (thicker) build or maybe machined better than the Grizzly.

The other part I looked at is the bearings for the cutter. The SB uses a one size larger diameter bearing, so that's good. The part number uses the extension "2NSE" which I have only seen used by Nachi brand bearings. Where as the Grizzly uses a "ZZ" bearing with could mean almost any brand. When you put the part number for the bearing into the search bar the picture of the 6203ZZ shows a metal shielded no name bearing for less than $3. The SB part number for the 6204 2NSE shows an NTN bearing for $15. So it seems like the SB has larger nicer bearings.

The final thing I looked at was the motor. There's no picture of them but the SB motor costs $531 while the Grizzle motor $310. I'm guessing that it's also built better. Clearly there are differences. I would expect the salesman to know this stuff.

Good help is hard to find lol Nothing new there. Grizzly salesman did not know & instead of calling back with answer, just gave a generic "answer". True/Untrue answer = ???

[mike stenson]

You know, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. It's a whole lot better than making something up too.

[Charles Coolidge]

But I’ve read about fence issues with the Powermatic jointers.

Do you have a link? I can't find a single review of the PJ882 with a fence issue, maybe you were referencing another model.

[Debbie Battaglia]

Sorry, I don't remember where I saw those comments about the fences. I saw a couple that said they didn't hold a 90 degree angle.

Customer service people are usually so frustrating, just reading from some document, but not necessarily getting the right answer. Or they just guess or BS. It's almost surprising when you get someone who knows what they're talking about.

I've learned a lot from this thread, thank you all. I'm still undecided about what I'll get.

[Charlie Jones]

I will put in a plug for the German blades sold by Disposi- Blade. After the initial cost for the blade holders the blades are cheap, double sided and really sharp. They are much cheaper than insert tooling and there is is no setup. I have them in my jointer and planer. I highly recommend them.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I have the G0857 which is the straight knife version of the 858. It's a decent machine, quite flat tables and casting (worst flaw was a .003 dip along outfeed). Factory adjustment was pretty good, but I did dial it in a little better myself and found the parallelogram adjusting mechanism to be easy and quick to use.

More heft wouldn't hurt, but it is solid enough for hobby furniture making by a long shot. The "built in mobile base" is kind of a joke, it's just 4 tiny wheels without casters, so you have to lift one side of the machine to turn. But it does allow you to move it.

Seems to have decent power with straight knives.

Re: Levers vs Handwheels - I don't mind the levers on the infeed, but I'd prefer a handwheel on the outfeed to ease fine tuning. I can get it done with the lever, though.

Noise- it's not too loud until you run the DC, then it sounds like an air-raid siren. I think this is a thing with straight knives, insert heads should be quieter.

[Debbie Battaglia]

Does a cutterhead with 54 inserts produce a significantly better surface than one with 36?

[Charles Coolidge]

Does a cutterhead with 54 inserts produce a significantly better surface than one with 36?

Helical sheering cutter heads can leave a pattern on the wood surface so the more inserts and overlapping rows of inserts the better imo. The patterns can be difficult to impossible to see on light colored woods, until you put some finish on them and they pop out. Light sanding removes them. Likely a non issue for edge jointing. Cutter head speed is also a factor. The Powermatic PJ882 turns at 7,000 rpms. Other jointers are much slower. Given the same feed rate the 7,000 rpm cutter head will make more passes.

[Alex Zeller]

I can't say how good all the fences are that Powermatic makes but I can take a picture of mine. That's a 24" Starrett square. I had to put the flashlight under it to see the gap in the middle. That gap is too small to get the smallest feeler gauge into it that I have (.0015). I've checked it for twist too and it's nice and flat.

If buying new I would remove the fence, not too hard, and lay it flat on one of the tables to check flatness unless you have a way of checking it. One thing I'm pretty sure about is that Powermatic will replace anything that's bad. I believe they will send someone to your shop to do any warranty repairs.
jointer 2.jpg
And the power feeder mount that I forgot to post earlier.
jointer 1.jpg