Just wondering..

[steven c newman]

About Dovetails..

Some say you have to have the thinnest saw plate known to man...or you just can't cut a dovetail....Super thin kerf !!!....just means more waste to remove.

Some say you NEED a fret saw, again with a hair thing blade ( that sometimes breaks if you sneeze on it) Hmm..one more tool to buy...and still NEED a chisel..

Some say you need x amount of teeth on the super thin dovetail saw....something like 126teeth? My saw has the same amount of teeth, just they are spread out over 14".

Some say..you NEED to build a fancy vise to hold the parts...a Moxxon?

Some say you need to buy ("from me!) a special chisel....some for getting into a thin kerf, or back into a back corner....

Oh, and, Heaven forbid you do not pocess a fancy guide to help guide your saw cuts...


All for something that is just a simple rip cut. Wondering what Old man Hepplewhite would say.....let alone Roy Underhill...

Just sitting, letting the right knee rest up a bit....carry on.

[mike stenson]

I'm not sure I can call two pieces of wood and some screws fancy Made doing this easier though



Put 10 woodworkers in a room and you'll probably find 30 ways to do dovetails. They will all work.

[James Pallas]

I donÂ’t want to send a bad message here. I do like good tools and special purpose tools and own tons. I do own small squares, fret saws, dovetail saws, numerous chisels, dovetail markers and such that can be used. I just choose not to use all of that for most dovetail work. I have looked at a lot of dovetails good and bad historical, new, hand cut and machined. The older hand cut ones on what is considered museum quality are not great always. Chips, over cuts, fillers, shims are all there. Opinion wise I think if you are looking at doing one drawer or similar and have unlimited time and materials you can do as you want. If you have 30 drawers to make use a machine unless you have a customer willing to pay you for whatever it takes.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

About Dovetails..

Some say you have to have the thinnest saw plate known to man...or you just can't cut a dovetail....Super thin kerf !!!....just means more waste to remove.

???¿¿¿ Is my logic off in thinking it is the same amount of waste to be removed no matter what tools are put to the task?

Some say you NEED a fret saw, again with a hair thing blade ( that sometimes breaks if you sneeze on it) Hmm..one more tool to buy...and still NEED a chisel..

???¿¿¿ There have been many posts of people mentioning the advantages of coping saws and fret saws. The ones saying for cutting dovetails you "NEED" one must have slipped passed me.

BTW once the key to using a fret saw was learned, very few of my blades have been broken. If the blade is not tight, it will likely bend and break. The blade should "sing" when plucked if it is tight enough. If one is thinking of acquiring a fret saw make sure it has an easy way to adjust blade tension.


Some say you need x amount of teeth on the super thin dovetail saw....something like 126teeth? My saw has the same amount of teeth, just they are spread out over 14".

???¿¿¿ There is a lot to be said for the person who can cut clean dovetails in a piece of 1/4" stock with a 5 ppi rip saw and clean it out with a single push of a chisel. Again, the posts declaring this is the only way to cut a dovetal elude me.

Besides, once one feels the ease of control when using a saw made specifically for the task it feels great, not flimsy.

Some say..you NEED to build a fancy vise to hold the parts...a Moxxon?

Some say you need to buy ("from me!) a special chisel....some for getting into a thin kerf, or back into a back corner....

Oh, and, Heaven forbid you do not pocess a fancy guide to help guide your saw cuts...

All for something that is just a simple rip cut. Wondering what Old man Hepplewhite would say.....let alone Roy Underhill...

Just sitting, letting the right knee rest up a bit....carry on.

There have been many who have suggested a Moxxon vise is helpful by raising the work so one doesn't have to bend over.

Was Rob Cossman trying to sell kerf making tools here? That one too was missed, my morning reading seems to be missing a lot.

Do you have links for all these post?

Hopefully your knee feels better soon. Maybe it is just the meds that have made you grumpy today.

jtk

[Richard Verwoest]

Ahhhh Jim, you took the bait....

[steven c newman]

Not in least bit grumpy, frumpy...whatever...more perplexed, is all...

[steven c newman]

Nope..no bait...just sitting here thinking out loud....resting up from a late night of drawer building....

[Jim Koepke]

Ahhhh Jim, you took the bait....

Tricked by the master…

jtk

[Scott Clausen]

I bought the knew concepts fret saw and like it but found that I like to just chop the waste out, who knew? The saw, if it cuts well and you are one the waste side of the line its all good as long as you are not buggering up the finished edge. I have a 4 TPI rip saw but haven't tried it for dovetailing. If you do enough of them, I haven't, you only need a bevel, saw and chisel.

[mike stenson]

One could do the whole operation with a knife btw.

[steven c newman]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

[mike stenson]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

Moxon's predate face vises by centuries, but... dovetails predate saws. Use a knife, or you're cheating.

[James Pallas]

I'm not sure I can call two pieces of wood and some screws fancy Made doing this easier though



Put 10 woodworkers in a room and you'll probably find 30 ways to do dovetails. They will all work.

Hey Mike, Nice Moxon, great idea a couple of clamps and a scrap to keep things nice and straight. Good saw. The genius part is the tool box to elevate yourself not the work. You didn’t go buy a special stool to stand on. 😂 Great job.
Jim

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

Do you own one of those new-fangled things called automobiles, or is your mode of transportation a horse and buggy? Just wondering.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

Looking at the history of backsaws, it appears the earliest example may have been by the Romans. Archeologists found a saw that appears to have had a back. Not only that they had a progressive pitch on the teeth.

A saw with a thin plate reenforced by a metal rib was mentioned in the mid 16th century:

Moving forward, our next clue, is found in H.C. Mercer's "Ancient Carpenters Tools" pp139 where he says that the tenon saw is first mentioned in the 1549 edition of the "New English Dictionary" and is so thin that it is stiffened with a metal rib. He may have been referring to a saw that is mounted in a metal frame, rather than our moden concept of a backsaw

From > http://www.backsaw.net/index.php/2-u...of-the-backsaw

As others mentioned the earliest dovetails were likely cut with knives or bronze chisels.

Man is a creative creature and can accomplish many things without a lot.

Being creative is what drives some to find easier, faster and more comfortable ways of doing their work.

jtk