Is there a market for basic cars, appliances,etc?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I am starting to think seriously about making myself a utilitarian electric vehicle. Either an old VW, Isuzu Pup or Chevy Luv conversion, or something bicycle based. Street legal is big a challenge. It needs to have wind and rain protection, carry one adult, a dog, and some tools. with a range of 30 miles and a speed of 20 MPH or more.
Mostly dreaming, and doing research.

EV West makes kits for old school VW conversion to electric. Base price $7500
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40

[Kev Williams]

I bought a 2004 chevy van back in 2015 for my wife's dad to drive around. Paid $1300 for it from a dealer. Dad failed the driving test (he was 88 at the time I think) so I got it back. Our son-in-law used it for nearly a year, a granddaughter used it for about 8 months, I've driven in between and ever since. I paid my cousin the mek-a-nick a couple hundred bucks to change the thermostat and fix a loose ABS wire. That's the extent of repair bills...

Had a bought something more in the mid $20k range, I'd have shelled out probably $380-ish a month for 6 years, or about $27,500.
Average gas prices in the last 2 years appear to be about $2.85 a gallon. Average now is around $4.50-ish, about $1.70 extra...
15,000 miles a year / 18 mpg = 833 gallons..
At $2.85 = $2375 per year
At $4.50 = $3750 per year
difference: $1375, / 12 months = $114.53 extra per month...
that's about 1/3 of a car payment

Now, think about how many cars get ONLY 18 mpg, and at that rate @ 15k miles yearly, even $115 a month doesn't sound that all that bad. (I know several people who are paying more than that in CC interest every month)

I just got my new electric equal-pay bill for the next 12 months, dropped $77 per month

All I'm driving at is, there are ways, aside from home-building a new vehicle, to whittle down the outgo

[Maurice Mcmurry]

We searched thoroughly for a non digital gas range back in 2002 and it was hard to find back then. In many ways our technology has out-paced our common sense. Grandma's neighbor made himself an electric car when my mom was little. I think it is still in the museum in Corydon Iowa. Those electric VWs sure are neat!

Here is the car. Mom was a young lady (rather than little).

received_1445008685915801.jpg received_647988779599293.jpg

[Maurice Mcmurry]

EV West makes kits for old school VW conversion to electric. Base price $7500
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40

Right On! Thanks. I just need to find a VW Thing, Or Karmann Ghia

[Scott Winners]

I will go with yes and no. I used to own, exclusively, first generation small block Chevy engines (1955-1992) in all my vehicles. It has been 30+ years since the kids at Jiffy Lube sent a stranger to my driveway with a carburetor problem, but I knew that engine family inside and out. In 2004 I bought a new GM vehicle with an LS1 (third generation) V8 in it. Within 20 miles of driving that car off the dealer lot I resolved to sell off all my old iron. And I did sell every bolt.

With the chips and the metallurgy and the ongoing engineering the Gen III motor was just a better all around motor. Port fuel injection. Factory stock that thing was a beast when I beat on it, but it could also do real good on gas when I was gentle with it.

On the other hand, I only buy two kinds of clothes. I have stuff that is dry clean only, and all the rest of my clothes can be washed in cold water on regular cycle and dried in the dryer on regular/hot. I only use the 50% and 100% power setting on my microwave oven. I am opposed to ice makers and water dispensers in refrigerators. But I am married. My washing machine has many settings, my microwave probably has enough processing power to land a space shuttle, and the darn filters for the water dispenser on my fridge are unspeakably expensive. But my wife is happy. Can't put a price on that.

I do like the back up camera in my current truck, it especially nice to see my hitch and the receiver for my boat trailer on the same screen, but there is plenty of things in my SR-5 trim level Tacoma I could do without.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

In 1970, I purchased a 1963 Studebaker Lark, Taxi model. A specially stripped model. No radio, no windshield washer, no seat belts, no power steering, no rear window defrost. 3 spd on the column. Packard 6 engine got about 18 MPG. Came with a pair of extra wheels with studded snow tires and a set of chains. That ugly beast would go in the snow for sure. Sold it for $200 more than i paid because the guy wanted the engine.
In 1979, I purchased the last model Datsun 210, stripped down basic model. No ac, no radio, 4 spd manual. I put wider tires on it, had snow tires for winter storms. That car served me well until 1987 with 145K miles and still got 35 mpg. The engine and carbs were made for leaded gas. It just didn't get the mileage or run as good on unleaded, which was all I could get in 1987. I needed a tax deduction and gave it away. In 2014, my wife bought a stripped down basic Mitsubishi Mirage. 3 ctl engine and made in Thailand. Cheapest street legal car sold in America at the time. Automatic trans, AC, stereo radio with cd player and bluetooth. Rear window defroster, electric windows., USB outlets, power steering, etc. In 1979 it would have been a luxury car. And in 2014, it was only about 2.5 times the cost of the cheap stripped down Datsun I bought 34 years earlier.. The mirage still runs great at 95K miles, gets almost 45 MPG and the recommended oil changes are every 10K miles not every 5K like the Datsun.

A year ago, my wife spent bought a Toyota Highlander. Heated steering wheel, remote start, built in GPS, parking video cameras, heated seats, a sultry woman's voice that tells you to lock the doors or check the rear seat for sleeping kids, Bells that sound if you cross a traffic line without using a turn signal, exterior temperature, automatic dimming headlights, obstacle ahead or behind warning alarm, cruise control, anti skid breaks, automatic sun roof, night lights that light the ground around the doors as the key fob approaches the car., remote start, remote lock from anywhere in the world, a maintenance reminder that sends a text to remind the owner to schedule service. Separate heaters, ac and usb outlets for the rear passengers, a fold down third seat, even has a voltage inverter and 120 volt outlets. It does everything but wipe your butt. It ought to. It cost more than some people's house. Definitely not my choice. But I really did love that old Studebaker.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

My first vehicle was a 1949 International KB-2 pick up. I wish I still had it. The heater worked so well that you could probably toast marshmallows in front of it. The air conditioning was great too. It was a crank on the dash that opened the windsheild. If you wanted to use the air it helped to have goggles.

[Stan Calow]

from this thread, you can see that the market for simple things is mostly old boomers who know how to do things like add without a calculator and read a paper map. We're not the target market for anything anymore. Young folks have moved on. I'll admit, I want all those new high tech safety features on my cars because there are too many crazy young drivers out there.

PS I had a 1981 Dodge w/o power windows. Three of the window crank handles came off after awhile. So old tech poorly executed wasn't always dependable.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am enjoying seeing all of the interest in hand tools here at SMC. This forum has an interesting range, from the simple hand plane and hand saw to CNC and Laser. I find it interesting that the internet is helping young folks develop their interest in traditional woodworking with hand tools. It reminds me of the popularity of The Mother Earth News in the 1970s.

[Lee DeRaud]

from this thread, you can see that the market for simple things is mostly old boomers who know how to do things like add without a calculator and read a paper map. We're not the target market for anything anymore. Young folks have moved on. I'll admit, I want all those new high tech safety features on my cars because there are too many crazy young drivers out there.

PS I had a 1981 Dodge w/o power windows. Three of the window crank handles came off after awhile. So old tech poorly executed wasn't always dependable.

Even old tech well-executed wasn't particularly good. Without 20/20 nostalgia, at least some of us remember just how truly bad cars were 50 years back compared to the most basic ones available now.

Or as a coworker in 1974 said about his almost-new VW Bug, "The good news is, it's really easy to work on. The bad news is, you always have to."

[mike stenson]

Even old tech well-executed wasn't particularly good. Without 20/20 nostalgia, at least some of us remember just how truly bad cars were 50 years back compared to the most basic ones available now.

Or as a coworker in 1974 said about his almost-new VW Bug, "The good news is, it's really easy to work on. The bad news is, you always have to."

It's funny how common 100,000 miles on an engine is now. It's also funny how much more reliable in general they are.. and how often that's forgotten. Great point.

[Anthony Whitesell]

from this thread, you can see that the market for simple things is mostly old boomers who know how to do things like add without a calculator and read a paper map. We're not the target market for anything anymore. Young folks have moved on. I'll admit, I want all those new high tech safety features on my cars because there are too many crazy young drivers out there.

PS I had a 1981 Dodge w/o power windows. Three of the window crank handles came off after awhile. So old tech poorly executed wasn't always dependable.

And the people and the economy are just beginning to realize the effect. One indicator is the average person's non-mortgage non-school loan debt. The effect is that people just cannot afford to pay the high cost of having the stuff repaired. Perry Hilbert's post is a prime example. When it is more simply built (or built to be repaired) then it is less expensive to be repaired. When it is complex or has lots of bells-and-whistles, then the repair costs go up. Not just due to the cost of the parts but also for the increased time and labor. I am scared of my new (2016) truck. I know there are things on it that if they break will either break the bank or be irrepariable. This is going to be a big issue. When I am at the car dealer besides coat in hand (you can google why that is important if you don't know) my other tactics in negotiating the sale price is to stick to my planned monthly and and b**** amount the length of the loan versus the length of the warranty. My usual statement is "The included warranty s***s. I can afford to pay for the car or afford to pay to have it repaired but not both. The warranty needs to be as long as the loan." They end up throwing in a free extended warranty. Actually they charge me for it but up my trade in value to cover. If any one reviews the paperwork later it must look weird later seeing they gave $4000 for 9 year old car with 257k miles and burns a quart of oil per thousand. The fact is the economy is approaching a rude awakening.

[Jim Koepke]

Some people have difficulty with the map due to an inability to visualize the scale difference. Then of course there are those who can never fold the map properly once it is opened.

My vehicle GPS is nice but it does make mistakes or is ambiguous. It looks like it is a few years old. My vehicle shows most of the street speed limits on the display. Some of the speed limits in town have been lowered in the past few years so mine shows many incorrectly.

Google maps are also off at times. As someone else mentioned the street name being wrong. My street finally was corrected but then they have put in nonexistent roads:

Google Maps is Wrong.png

Google shows the road going by my house & shop to the neighbors'. It ends about where the top black line is in front of my shop. It connects to my neighbors' properties by a road along an easement at the front of my property indicated be the lower black line in the bottom half of the image.

PS I had a 1981 Dodge w/o power windows. Three of the window crank handles came off after awhile. So old tech poorly executed wasn't always dependable.

This is from one of my favorite scenes in Remo Williams The Adventure Begins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1tJOKHxezo

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

It's funny how common 100,000 miles on an engine is now. It's also funny how much more reliable in general they are.. and how often that's forgotten. Great point.

My parents had a 1977 Ford LTD II where the engine seized at 85,000 miles. My father and a friend put in a junkyard engine. My father finally retired the car at just over 100,000 miles when it started randomly shutting down on the freeway.

I would be pretty upset if the engine failed on my vehicle at just 100,000 miles. I have about 68,000 miles on a vehicle that is five and a half years old.

[Lee DeRaud]

Some people have difficulty with the map due to an inability to visualize the scale difference.

Back in paper-map days, I had visitors who booked flights into the wrong airport because they didn't realize that "the other side of town" is fifty miles away.