Is there a market for basic cars, appliances,etc?

[Dave Zellers]

If it's anything like the Honda system, there's not a whole lot more circuitry inside than the normal lock/unlock remote fob: all the fancy stuff is in the car. The only real difference is that the fob is transmitting at a very low power level all the time, not just when you push a button.

(The one for SWMBO's Soul has a flip-out "switchblade" key, but the fob part has to be present or the car won't start.)

Yes that makes sense. Key-less means we don't have a switchblade key and just push a button to start the car. But your description of the fob as a low level transmitter is very good. I'm sure all of this is very similar across all or most manufacturers.

[Jim Becker]

Yep. We just bought a new KIA Sportage and asked about the cost of a new fob. $450 to $500.

Unreal. Also- not sure but I don't think it's covered by the warranty.

The new cars today are computers with wheels.

Warranty would cover a fob that stops working, but not for one lost. Some extended service contracts will cover one fob replacement (the Mopar contract I had on the MY12 Jeep Grand Cherokee did) but not many do. And the level of security these days pretty much means there are no non-OEM fob replacements. (Some OEM fobs cannot be reprogrammed, too, so folks have to be wary of buying "used" fobs and expecting them to be able to be programmed for their vehicle. Always verify the capability first before plunking down money for a "used" fob)

[Zachary Hoyt]

My current vehicle (aside from the bus) is a 2013 Outback that I bought last year and which only has one key. I have been careful not to lose it and so far that has worked, but there's always a chance of things going wrong. Maybe I should get a spare before I have an emergency.

[Andrew More]

The only reason you'd buy a new one is to get the new features (which there will always be) or to get more range (which will always be improved).

The interiors also wear out, and in 20 years it could be a problem. I've got an old Honda from 2006 that's starting to show it's age. Had to replace the headliner (fabric in the ceiling) a while ago because the glue started to fail. Also replaced both axels recently. The seats are still in good condition, but I'm waiting for the driver side one to wear out. I've got 200K+ miles on it, and still going strong, I'm expecting to get another 100K, which is maybe in 5 years, so I think we're already there with 20-30 year old cars, IF you want a car to last that long. Most people don't seem to want to do that for whatever reason.

I'm also reminded of the $5K electric car which is popular in China, but a lot of analytics say won't make it here because people don't want cheap, basic transportation.... (And then complain about how they're broke and can't make it in this country)

OTOH, I have to wonder what compromises have been made. My brother has a business flipping golf carts, and most of those are going for 6-8K, used, with far less body work.

[Jim Becker]

My current vehicle (aside from the bus) is a 2013 Outback that I bought last year and which only has one key. I have been careful not to lose it and so far that has worked, but there's always a chance of things going wrong. Maybe I should get a spare before I have an emergency.

If it's a fob, yea...you want to have a spare. "Stuff happens"...but you know that!

[Lee DeRaud]

Some OEM fobs cannot be reprogrammed, too, so folks have to be wary of buying "used" fobs and expecting them to be able to be programmed for their vehicle.

Maybe it's changed in recent years (or for some specific brands), but it's always been my impression that it's the car's entry system that is (re)programmed to recognize the fob, not the other way around.

[Howard Garner]

Yes, And if you loos one, get a replacement and get both the new one and the existing one reprogrammed, great.
Then you find the lost one - it will not work because the others were reprogrammed (2015 VW)
Howard Garner

[Jim Becker]

Maybe it's changed in recent years (or for some specific brands), but it's always been my impression that it's the car's entry system that is (re)programmed to recognize the fob, not the other way around.

There are variations on the theme for sure. In some vehicles, for example, you can add a fob, but must have the originals available for the technician to do their thing. In others, they can just add one. It varies. The worst possible case is losing all your fobs and also not having the little ID tag that came with the fobs when the vehicle was new. Ching, ching...

[Brian Elfert]

The "key" for my car is an oddly shaped fob that has a rectangular stub at the end that plugs into the "ignition switch". You turn it just like a normal key, but you could use any key fob from any other Chrysler product with the same system and turn the key so far as I know, but it wouldn't start the car. I suspect there is an RFID chip or something in the fob that actually authorizes the key.

[Lee DeRaud]

There are variations on the theme for sure. In some vehicles, for example, you can add a fob, but must have the originals available for the technician to do their thing.

The Boxster worked like that: they had to erase all the programmed fobs and then add both the old and the new one. But again, it was the car getting programmed, not the fob(s).

[Mike Henderson]

The Boxster worked like that: they had to erase all the programmed fobs and then add both the old and the new one. But again, it was the car getting programmed, not the fob(s).

Since you've been through this, Lee, what has to be done to the car to reprogram the fobs for a keyless ignition? Do they have to connect their computer to the car? You want some kind of security that someone can't do it to your car while it's in a parking lot.

Mike

[Greg Funk]

Yes that makes sense. Key-less means we don't have a switchblade key and just push a button to start the car. But your description of the fob as a low level transmitter is very good. I'm sure all of this is very similar across all or most manufacturers.

Tesla conveniently uses a $10 passive RFID card or the Bluetooth built in to your phone. $400 key fobs seem a little outrageous given the technology is relatively simple.

[Lee DeRaud]

Since you've been through this, Lee, what has to be done to the car to reprogram the fobs for a keyless ignition? Do they have to connect their computer to the car? You want some kind of security that someone can't do it to your car while it's in a parking lot.

Oh yeah, it takes a Porsche-specific service computer that they protect like nuclear codes. There are aftermarket equivalents, but they can't do things like this. And it also required a VIN-specific unlock code from the Porsche distributor back east: the shop had to fax them my registration because I was an "unknown" owner.

On a vaguely related topic, don't get me started on how you can't buy factory service manuals anymore. For Honda, you have to pay for a limited-time subscription to the online version...and it's not cheap.

[Zachary Hoyt]

If it's a fob, yea...you want to have a spare. "Stuff happens"...but you know that!

I called the dealer and was quoted $250 for a fob from Subaru and $120 to program it. I guess I'll just keep on not losing my key, at that price. I've been a licensed driver for 17 years and haven't lost a key yet, but I have been told that there is a first time for everything.

[Lee DeRaud]

I called the dealer and was quoted $250 for a fob from Subaru and $120 to program it. I guess I'll just keep on not losing my key, at that price. I've been a licensed driver for 17 years and haven't lost a key yet, but I have been told that there is a first time for everything.

Sounds like your dealer is charging full MSRP for the part and a full hour of labor...same as it ever was.
Check with a reputable automotive locksmith, I suspect you'll get a quote closer to half that.