Gassed up today

[Doug Garson]

That remains to be seen. With no current incentives the market has stalled for new wind turbines. In fact Siemens Gamesa which has a blade plant near me is laying off most of the work force due to the lack of new orders. They aren't the only supplier of course but I'm sure other suppliers are feeling a similar pinch. I don't know if the solar industry is in a similar place or not. I'm not sure if the intent is to force electric rates so high that "clean energy" will stand on it's own without subsidies or not.

According to a company press release "Siemens Gamesa said it faced a patent challenge against features of its onshore wind turbines in 2021 brought by a competitor. “While the International Trade Commission ultimately ruled in favor of Siemens Gamesa, the company was unable to pursue orders during that period. Since then, the U.S. wind market for onshore has slowed in anticipation of new climate legislation and the accompanying renewable energy incentives. Combined with long lead times on wind energy projects, these factors have resulted in a “production gap” in 2022,”

[Ronald Blue]

[QUOTE=Doug Garson;3202776]"VANCOUVER: Starting April 1, electricity bills for BC Hydro customers will be reduced by an average of 1.4 per cent, following interim approval by the BC Utilities Commission.The rate decrease is part of a three-year rate application that, if approved, marks a period of the lowest rate increases in B.C. over the past 15 years."

No doubt there will be rate increases during the transition away from coal but I suspect eventually the rates will be lower. According to Bloomberg "It's now cheaper to build and operate new large-scale wind or solar plants in nearly half the world than it would be to run an existing coal or gas-fired power plant."

After looking at how Canada get's it's electric power it seems like an apples to oranges comparison. By a large margin your power is sourced from hydro electric. I don't know the specifics of them but am I correct to assume that there are more "hydro electric" friendly locations there? I happen to live 15 miles from a large hydro electric facility on the Mississippi River. It was originally built with the idea of having double the capacity 100 years ago but the water flow just isn't there.
Only a small part of your power comes from wind. By my calculations about 5%. Regardless of what Bloomberg might say if wind or solar are really cheaper to build and operate than a fossil fuel plant they wouldn't need incentives to encourage investment. With all the EPA regulations here it would seem that we'd be that magical place that would be true. Our rates will only continue to climb unfortunately.

[Ronald Blue]

According to a company press release "Siemens Gamesa said it faced a patent challenge against features of its onshore wind turbines in 2021 brought by a competitor. “While the International Trade Commission ultimately ruled in favor of Siemens Gamesa, the company was unable to pursue orders during that period. Since then, the U.S. wind market for onshore has slowed in anticipation of new climate legislation and the accompanying renewable energy incentives. Combined with long lead times on wind energy projects, these factors have resulted in a “production gap” in 2022,”

While that's part of the reason the orders aren't there because the wind turbine market is stalled. You don't snap one's fingers and produce blades and IF there were orders coming they would begin production even if at a low rate. The laid off employees were told to not expect recall to their jobs. Seems pretty certain to me that there is a big slow down and it's more than waiting for the ITC to make a ruling.

[Doug Garson]

[QUOTE=Ronald Blue;3202789]

"VANCOUVER: Starting April 1, electricity bills for BC Hydro customers will be reduced by an average of 1.4 per cent, following interim approval by the BC Utilities Commission.The rate decrease is part of a three-year rate application that, if approved, marks a period of the lowest rate increases in B.C. over the past 15 years."

No doubt there will be rate increases during the transition away from coal but I suspect eventually the rates will be lower. According to Bloomberg "It's now cheaper to build and operate new large-scale wind or solar plants in nearly half the world than it would be to run an existing coal or gas-fired power plant."

After looking at how Canada get's it's electric power it seems like an apples to oranges comparison. By a large margin your power is sourced from hydro electric. I don't know the specifics of them but am I correct to assume that there are more "hydro electric" friendly locations there? I happen to live 15 miles from a large hydro electric facility on the Mississippi River. It was originally built with the idea of having double the capacity 100 years ago but the water flow just isn't there.
Only a small part of your power comes from wind. By my calculations about 5%. Regardless of what Bloomberg might say if wind or solar are really cheaper to build and operate than a fossil fuel plant they wouldn't need incentives to encourage investment. With all the EPA regulations here it would seem that we'd be that magical place that would be true. Our rates will only continue to climb unfortunately.

Yes we get a lot of our power from hydro especially here in BC, and also in Manitoba, Ontario and Newfoundland, Yukon and Quebec. We are the fourth largest producer of hydro after the US, Brazil and China, of course we have about 1/10 the population of the US, 1/5 the population of Brazil and about the same population as the biggest city in China so I suspect we have the highest per capita capacity in the world.
Don't know if the Bloomberg calculation included incentives and it seems they have put up a paywall so I can't go back and look.

[Curt Harms]

Wait. So your proposal is to NOT throw the baby out with the bath water and instead employ a rational well thought out transition away from total dependence on oil?????

What kind of nut-jobbery is this?????

Are you one of them whackos?
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Oh man, if only we could.

When did logic and reason become the enemy?

When it threatens the $$$$ of those setting the agenda. Saying more would violate the TOS about discussing politics.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Our gas is around $3.79. Missouri has the lowest state gas tax and people are astounded that the roads and bridges are so bad. I am surprised CA has different prices cash v credit.

27 cents lower than the national average in MO. Prices have not hit $5 yet for me, but its getting close. We also have guys in big diesel rigs who "Roll Coal" the target is Joggers, Cyclists, Rice Burners, Hybrids, and E.Vs. Our 2010 Prius is new to us and it gets fogged often. It is annoying. Cyclists are the preferred target. I don't ride on the roads unless it is unavoidable.

[Kev Williams]

Cost difference of gas across the country, really a thorn for me-


There's umpteen refineries within 15 miles of where I'm sitting,
they get most of their oil by truck from a couple hundred miles away,
and to top it off, because we're at 4400', our regular grade is only 85 octane...!

Cheap transportation of oil in every way, and the lowest quality gas possible,
is somehow worth a 40 cent per gallon upcharge...

oy

Just heard an 'aside' on the news this morning, 'gas prices have dropped around 25c per gallon in the past week'....

Here in the SLC area, and I'm pretty sure the refineries are up and running, prices are $5.29, which is as high as I've >>ever<< seen. Umm...thinking.gif
I know I'm just deadhorse2.gifbut it's purebs.gifin my opinion...

[Lee DeRaud]

Just heard an 'aside' on the news this morning, 'gas prices have dropped around 25c per gallon in the past week'....

National average had dropped 21 days in a row as of yesterday.

[Ronald Blue]

National average had dropped 21 days in a row as of yesterday.

That's what happens when demand drops. I've not changed my habits other than sometimes set the cruise near the speed limit. Sometimes....but not always. It's hurting some people a lot. Generally the ones that can least afford it. This is also peak driving season so that means if it were not vacation time the demand would be even lower.

[Doug Garson]

My understanding is the majority of the cost of gasoline is the cost of crude oil so the drop in demand is more likely worldwide drop in demand for crude not local (US) drop in demand for gas.

[Ronald Blue]

My understanding is the majority of the cost of gasoline is the cost of crude oil so the drop in demand is more likely worldwide drop in demand for crude not local (US) drop in demand for gas.

Since the US is the single largest consumer it stands to reason that with lowered demand here the effect will be lower crude and gasoline prices.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...il_consumption

[Malcolm McLeod]

... with lowered demand ...

There is a supply side to this as well. Our BU has set 3 (domestic) production records in the last 5 months ... in spite of, uhhhm ... obstacles.