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Thread: 2 phase? What is this symbol?

  1. #31
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    SCM would understand 3phase. It's the delivery method in much of Europe, although wye.. not delta. (every place I've lived). The 2 could be referring to the split-phase delivery used in the US.
    ~mike

    happy in my mud hut

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    If the only info you have is that plate, I'd say it is a single-phase, 5HP machine (30A @ 230V would be 5HP).

    Considering the plate is likely the "truth", I'd bet on that. Where did the idea that it was 9HP or 3phase come from?
    I tend to agree Dan, the other info comes from the lister which is an auction house....The literature I've managed to come up with seems to suggest they offered a 5.5hp motor although they still don't specify the phase it the literature lol. I did find another video online of virtually the same machine a year newer and the person mentions it as single phase. Erik also put up a similar plate and stated that machine was single phase too.

    In reality I'd really like it to be single phase, though have been looking for a 7.5hp machine. Regardless, if I manage to get one it would be nice to know my electrical requirement before it arrives lol!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    If the only info you have is that plate, I'd say it is a single-phase, 5HP machine (30A @ 230V would be 5HP).

    Considering the plate is likely the "truth", I'd bet on that. Where did the idea that it was 9HP or 3phase come from?
    Depends on the motor. If it's rated at 85% efficiency a 5HP motor would be under 20A. An 85% efficient motor rated at 30A would be 7.5HP

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Wyberanec View Post
    For some reason I cannot edit my post to add this....edit button is gone

    Anyway, here is the plate in question....it is exactly like Erik's plate, it lists as ~2 I typically understand this box to indicate phases, maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, is this is single or 3 phase machine??? As I mentioned it's a 9hp motor so I would tend to think 3 phase, and it is advertised as 3 phase, but the plate confuses me. What do you think??

    Attachment 475887
    Kurt, that’s a 4.8hp/1-phase saw. In fact, very likely I or one of my officemates was the original salesperson. The S350WS was pretty much the only saw that would take a 14” blade that was available in single-phase in those days.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  5. #35
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    Thanks Erik!

  6. #36
    Kurt, just curious: What are they asking for it?

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  7. #37
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    It's an auction so no way to say... what do you think is fair? This one has the dro on the do fence, overhead guard, dado, and arms in good shape. I saw another one of these recently slightly less specd too.

    And what did you think of these machines?

    Thanks

  8. #38
    Kurt, I found that auction. Small world: I know the owner. His shop is here in the Austin area. Didn’t realize he was getting out of the business. Decently sized shop full of Stiles equipment, full staff. Wonder what happened? Maybe covid wiped him out? Anyhow, here is my 2-cents: Look elsewhere. If you were within driving distance, “Sure”, but this machine has zero chance of making it cross-country without some type of structural damage. Shop liquidating and getting out of the biz means people on the shipper’s side will do the bare minimum necessary to just get it on a truck. The only way you could safely transport a fully assembled 10-foot slider with overhead guard any distance, frankly, is by dedicated truck (if you think the other freight quote was high, wait til you see dedicated load cost). We have enough struggles just getting new sliders delivered, which are actually crated properly to begin with.

    On a personal note, it seems like your quest for this magical unicorn of slider has been going on for quite some time. Sure, you “might” find something within driving distance but it probably will be a project to get running. I keep thinking back to that member here who bought a used Martin, which seemed to end up consuming his entire life. Maybe that’s what you want? But if you actually want to be cutting panels, I would just bite the bullet and buy a new machine. Delivery will be handled, insured, warranty, actual tech support (at least if Felder, LOL), etc. Just my 2-cents.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray grundhoefer View Post
    Been an electrician for over 40 years. Never hears anyone call it 2 phase ,either single phase or 3 phase period.
    I have heard older local electricians refer to single phase 240 as "split phase". Has anybody else run into this?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott T Smith View Post
    I have heard older local electricians refer to single phase 240 as "split phase". Has anybody else run into this?
    Yes. Very much so. EE's I work with as well.
    ~mike

    happy in my mud hut

  11. #41
    Patrick put huge time in that saw. So what hes put out more furniture than most people here since the saw was done. His level of work and attention to detail were above most. One more good person not here who cared about the trade and helped people here.

    You make him sound like a victim, when really he set the bar.
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 03-17-2022 at 6:23 PM.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott T Smith View Post
    I have heard older local electricians refer to single phase 240 as "split phase". Has anybody else run into this?
    Yup, post 23.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent stanley View Post
    Yup, post 23.
    Apparently, I'm old!! I actually gave up thinking that the US 240 VAC should be 2 phase and went with the "split-phase" terminology. However, if you count the phases in 3 phase power (3 sinusoidal phases 120 degrees out of phase with each other phases) then US 240 VAC is really 2 phase with 180 degree out of phase in terms of the sin wave.

    When powering anything with AC power - it is the resulting applied voltage difference that provides the power. So if you argued 2 phase should be 2 lines of the 3 phase (another words 2 lines 120 degrees out of phase versus 2 lines 180 degrees out of phase) then you have a special definition of what these voltages are. The device wouldn't care if it received the right voltage from 2 lines 120 degrees out of phase or 2 lines 180 degrees out of phase. All the attached device sees is a potential difference between the 2 lines.

    I realize it isn't typical to refer to "split-phase" or 2 hot lines or whatever you'd like to call it as 2 phase - the end result is the same. Provide the right magnitude AC sine wave voltage difference between the two wires and the device has the voltage it needs. You can call it single phase, 2 phase, split phase, or any other choice words, if the RMS voltage is met then it will run.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Arnsdorff View Post
    Apparently, I'm old!! I actually gave up thinking that the US 240 VAC should be 2 phase and went with the "split-phase" terminology. However, if you count the phases in 3 phase power (3 sinusoidal phases 120 degrees out of phase with each other phases) then US 240 VAC is really 2 phase with 180 degree out of phase in terms of the sin wave.

    When powering anything with AC power - it is the resulting applied voltage difference that provides the power. So if you argued 2 phase should be 2 lines of the 3 phase (another words 2 lines 120 degrees out of phase versus 2 lines 180 degrees out of phase) then you have a special definition of what these voltages are. The device wouldn't care if it received the right voltage from 2 lines 120 degrees out of phase or 2 lines 180 degrees out of phase. All the attached device sees is a potential difference between the 2 lines.

    I realize it isn't typical to refer to "split-phase" or 2 hot lines or whatever you'd like to call it as 2 phase - the end result is the same. Provide the right magnitude AC sine wave voltage difference between the two wires and the device has the voltage it needs. You can call it single phase, 2 phase, split phase, or any other choice words, if the RMS voltage is met then it will run.
    I guess I'm one of those people who thinks terminology matters.

    In the US residential power distribution system, you have a transformer that is center tapped on the secondary. The input to that transformer is single phase and the output is single phase (center tapped). It is absolutely not two phase.

    Also, in the three phase system, if you take only two of the three wires, you have single phase. In order to get additional phases, you have to use all three wires, and that will give you 3-phase. When you have three wires, you can take any two and you'll have single phase between those two. There are three possible combinations of the wires (1-2, 1-3, 2-3) and you'll have single phase between each of those three combinations. Those three single phases will be 120 degrees apart.

    The fact that in the residential power system you have a center tap line does not create another phase. You have 240 volts across the two "outside" connections on the secondary and 120 volts between either of the "outside" wires and the center tap. But it's all single phase.

    When you connect power to a 240 volt load, you use just two wires and it's only possible to have a single phase between two wires.

    Please stop this nonsense about residential power systems being two phase. It absolutely is not.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    In the US residential power distribution system, you have a transformer that is center tapped on the secondary. The input to that transformer is single phase and the output is single phase (center tapped). It is absolutely not two phase.
    Mike is correct and the above is a unique way to explain "why". A transformer can change the magnitude of a voltage, but it cannot create phase-shifted outputs. Thus, a transformer that has a single-phase input MUST have a single-phase output (regardless of center taps).

    If that were not true, and a transformer could create "2 phase" from single phase, then why not 3 phase? Wouldn't that be handy if you could just buy a single-phase to 3-phase transformer? The fact that these don't exist should tell you that this isn't possible, and by extension, it is not possible to create "2 phase" from a single phase.

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