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Thread: Getting in the market for a milling machine and metal lathe

  1. #1
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    Getting in the market for a milling machine and metal lathe

    I know the focus at Sawmill Creek is woodworking, but I hoping there are some knowledgeable metal workers or machinists hang around.

    I have used both milling machines and metal lathes before, years ago. I know how to use them, but never got into selecting the machines or tooling.

    First, requirement is that it must fit throught the 36" wide door into my basement and must not be more than 7ft tall. (walk-out basement, one 4" step up and then one 12" step down that is actually ramped already)

    Second, it would be preferred if it was 120VAC single phase, 240VAC single phase, or 240VAC three phase (I would build another 1ph to 3ph VFD enclosure).

    Third, I do not want a combo machine.

    The first few questions I have are:
    1-For the milling machine, What type of collet should I be looking for the machine to accept? I see a lot of R8 collet and related stuff listed on the market. Should that be what I am targeting?

    2-What is the largest size that would fit through a 36" wide single door (without extensive or complex disassembly)? I'm thinking even the smaller fullsized Bridgeport machines will be too big.

    3-For the lathe, 36" is a pretty wide door to fit a lathe through sideways, I think one could get a fairly sizable lathe (based on the front to rear footprint measurement). I don't think that would be much of a limiting factor. With that, what size lathe should I be looking for? The 6"x X" and 7"x X" seem awfully small and delicate. As for length, I don't want to short myself (no pun intended) but at the same time, I cannot imagine chucking anything that is 24" or longer (honestly I can't think of what I would check that would be 24" in the first place).

    The metal working problems I have been working around for many years
    -the ability to square rough metal or to change its thickness
    -to change the ID or OD od round metal parts
    -to accurately drill metal parts squarely and on center
    -accurate drill multi-hole patterns (such as the hole pattern for a face mount motor)

    In other words I don't have anything to run end mills or facing cutters, that indexes x-y, or that can cut on center (squarely I can do, but on exactly on center is the caveat).

    I am looking for what I cann "forever" machines. I have a good idea of what I need to do. Don't want to have to fuss around with the machine everytime I want to use it (ie., I don't want to argue with the machine, only getting the setup just right to make the part). I don't want to buy another unless it is to buy a much larger one.
    Last edited by Anthony Whitesell; 03-04-2022 at 1:19 PM.

  2. #2
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    Picking out a lathe is the easy part. Just about any lathe you would consider for home use will fit through a 36 inch doorway. I have an old 11 inch Logan that I refurbished years ago and my brother recently bought a new 12 inch Precision Mathews that I helped him get through a 36 inch door to his basement. The larger lathes like this are heavy, both of these in the 700 pound range, but tailstock and headstock can be taken off to lighten the load.

    Your real problem might be with a mill. I would say you are correct about even the smaller sized Bridgeports not going through your doorway. If you removed the head and table you would still be left with a massive hunk of iron that I wouldn't even attempt to go down stairs with even if it did fit through the doorway. There are a lot of manufacturers of so called mini mills that would probably work for you. They are essentially benchtop mills but most come with a stand or cabinet to sit on. So being 2 pieces would make it easy to get into a basement. I have the Grizzly G0759 model. Just about any mill you buy will be set up for R8 collets. A full set doesn't cost much. It's the rest of the tooling, along with a good vise, that will chip away at your wallet.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ziebron View Post
    If you removed the head and table you would still be left with a massive hunk of iron that I wouldn't even attempt to go down stairs with even if it did fit through the doorway.
    Based on this I updated the OP. No stairs to worry about. Well two steps, one 4" up and one 12" step down which is ramped.

    I'm concerned about some of the real mini mills or mill/drills such as the Grizzly G0758. I am not picking Grizzly or suggesting anything regarding the quality of the machine. The woodworking tools I have purchased from them so far have been awesome, and not has let me down. I am only using them reference.

    I know the mill/drill units are small enough to fit through the door. How good are the mini mill/drill units? What tooling are the mill/drills able to support (ie., does it have to be built for a really small mill such that finding stuff would be a pain to non-existent). Do the end mills go into collets or into the drill chuck?

    I am leaning towards units similar to the G0759, or more precisely machines that are "designed" to have collets. As mentioned, I have used Bridgeport milling machines in the past, so I'm looking for something that works the same way.
    Last edited by Anthony Whitesell; 03-04-2022 at 1:20 PM.

  4. #4
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    Check out littlemachineshop.com
    theres a whole community around getting the most out of Chinese lathes and mills.

  5. #5
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    A full size bridgeport will go through a 36" door way if there is room on both ends. Some claim a 33" door is enough. For you I think a mill/drill R8 is probably good enough and you can store stuff under it. MT3 spindle is a pain get R8 which is self releasing.
    Mill/drill. +- 600 pounds
    Bridgeport 2200 pounds

    Lathes are very top heavy and narrow so they are easy to flip. A full size bridge port has. 5/8 threaded hole on top of the arm for hoisting. invert head to lower COG.
    Bill D.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    A grizzly G0760 or other Rong Fu RF-31. is a good choice. Big enough to do real work. Mine is labelled Jet. I use 1/2 and 1/4 carbide endmills so no coolant mess. They make good router bits as well. Mine is MT3 taper my nephew's is R8 both with drawbar like a BP. They make drill chuck mounts, ER collet setup or endmill holders. As well as direct mount shank type fly cutters etc.
    OLD South Bend lathes have a cult following and are priced accordingly. Do you need metric? My Harrison m300 is metric/english with some lever changes no swapping gears in/out of the drive train.
    BILL D.

    Look for the free military training books on milling machine and lathe operation.

    https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...iABEgJQ2PD_BwE

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    This is the best choice i saw on c-list for NH. I do not like it much. Probably no metric without $500+ in extra gears, open tumbler threading gear box, I think the chuck is threaded on not a cam lock mount. Probably a smaller through hole then a more modern lathe. I would recomend D1-4 spindle nose. Buy the long version of any lathe, used the extra length may even be cheaper.

    'https://nh.craigslist.org/tls/d/keene-vintage-clausing-colchester-13/7437628793.html
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 12-17-2022 at 7:29 PM. Reason: link doesn't work

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    A full size bridgeport will go through a 36" door way if there is room on both ends. Some claim a 33" door is enough. For you I think a mill/drill R8 is probably good enough and you can store stuff under it. MT3 spindle is a pain get R8 which is self releasing.
    Mill/drill. +- 600 pounds
    Bridgeport 2200 pounds

    Lathes are very top heavy and narrow so they are easy to flip. A full size bridge port has. 5/8 threaded hole on top of the arm for hoisting. invert head to lower COG.
    Bill D.
    I can see how that would work on a flat floor from both sides fo the door. I'm not sure I would want to attempt it with the step up/down that I have. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    This is the best choice i saw on c-list for NH. I do not like it much. Probably no metric without $500+ in extra gears, open tumbler threading gear box, I think the chuck is threaded on not a cam lock mount. Probably a smaller through hole then a more modern lathe. I would recomend D1-4 spindle nose. Buy the long version of any lathe, used the extra length may even be cheaper.

    https://nh.craigslist.org/tls/d/keen...437628793.html
    Luckily I don't mind driving a ways to get a better machine. I found a Precision Matthews mill in Maryland that I considered for a while this morning. Perhaps Maryland is a bit too far. I can also watch and wait. I am still working to clear space for them.
    Last edited by Anthony Whitesell; 03-04-2022 at 2:46 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    A grizzly G0760 or other Rong Fu RF-31. is a good choice. Big enough to do real work. Mine is labelled Jet. I use 1/2 and 1/4 carbide endmills so no coolant mess. They make good router bits as well. Mine is MT3 taper my nephew's is R8 both with drawbar like a BP. They make drill chuck mounts, ER collet setup or endmill holders. As well as direct mount shank type fly cutters etc.
    OLD South Bend lathes have a cult following and are priced accordingly. Do you need metric? My Harrison m300 is metric/english with some lever changes no swapping gears in/out of the drive train.
    BILL D.

    Look for the free military training books on milling machine and lathe operation.

    https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...iABEgJQ2PD_BwE
    I have used both machines in the past, but was never involved with the tooling. In class, it was "here's the machine and here's how to use it". At work, it was "here's the machine, and there are the tools". I hadn't the reason or chance to get involved with specifying the machine or tooling. Reading the G0760 description, can someone breakdown the line
    "The G0760 features an R-8 spindle and includes an R-8 drill chuck arbor and MT#3 drill chuck. Included are two adapters that will allow the use of MT#3 and MT#2 tooling."

  11. #11
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    That means it has s female r8 taper inside the spindle.
    The other stuff is unclear. I think
    It includes a loose arbor: that is male r8 on one end. and mt2 on the other. I think it Also has another loose arbor: male r8 on one end and mt3 on the other.
    Unclear if these are male or female on the morse end.
    There is a drill chuck included with either a mt 2 or mt 3 mounting hole or maybe a male end to fit one of those loose arbors. Why it is not r8 I do not know..
    The draw bar may be 3/8 or 12mm. both are commom. choose one and stay with that.

  12. #12
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    Let's see if I have this right.
    The spindle is an R8 (so I can get a set of R8 collets from anywhere for it)
    The drill chuck arbor is R8 on one side and B16 on the other, which attaches to the B16 drill chuck.
    There is an R8-MT#3 adapter which can be used as is or used with the MT#3-MT#2 adapter to get from R8 to MT#2.

    The G0760 looks like a good option if I want to buy new. But also about the right size for buying used.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
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    Anthony, that means that the machine is designed to use R8 collets and they supply you with a special R8 collet that an apparently supplied drill chuck will fit onto. The 2 adapters they give you for MT2 and MT3 would likely be used to mount a drill chuck that you may have for a lathe tailstock as those are the most common sizes in smaller lathes.

    Mills like the G0760 are nice because of the extra mass. My brother has the Rong Fu one and there are others all made in the same factory. The main reasons I don't like this mill is because changing speeds on it is just like on a multi-pulley drill press, in other words a PIA. A variable speed machine or one with easily changeable speeds is the better way to go for a mill. The other issue with this mill is the round column which is not good for repeatability; square columns are always better. I know you realize that more mass in a mill (or any machine) is always better and that is true. But there are things you can do to help that situation when considering a mill. My G0759 for instance doesn't weigh that much. But I built a tubular steel base that weighs over a hundred pounds and increased the footprint of the machine while only raising it about an inch. I also have loaded the cabinet with a lot tooling like a turntable, spindexer and more that adds another 100+ pounds. And this does make a noticeable difference. I've even heard of some guys filling the cabinet stand with cement.

    In all fairness, I would add that if I had to do it over again I would buy a larger mill even though so far this one has done everything I've wanted it to. My next choice would likely be the G0755. https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...wer-feed/g0755

  14. #14
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    Do yourself a favor and skip the mini-mills. While many people have them if you've ever used a Bridgeport type you probably will be disappointed. They lack the rigidity and mass to be productive.

    You can easily bring a full size Bridgeport or similar clone through a 36" walk door. As shown in the pictures above you can get it in. But if needed you can also remove the long table in less than ten minutes. You need two guys or a small cherry picker or hoist. And as shown the head rotates easily to clear the height.

    Actually you can break a bridgeport down into the major components easily. Once done the heaviest piece is the base.

    Don't let the 3-phase motors turn you off. You can buy a VFD for not much money, probably less than a phase converter. And the VFD gives you variable speed, instant reversing, slow start and dynamic braking.

    As far as the R8 spindle and tooling you're on the right track. 30 or 40 taper spindles are also good but less common. For your drill chuck you will buy a R8 to Jacobs taper adapter. These are common so they're inexpensive and easy to find.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Feeley View Post
    Check out littlemachineshop.com
    theres a whole community around getting the most out of Chinese lathes and mills.
    I bought a mill and metal turning lathe from the Little Machine Shop and they have been great. They also have everything you will need and more. I don't think the collet type makes too much difference. Mine uses R8.

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