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Thread: How many go above 8000 grit

  1. #1
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    How many go above 8000 grit

    I know, sharpening, like there isn't enough discussion about it. I've been watching RC make those fluffy full width shaving with his 16000 grit stone on end grain. I go as far as 8000 and switch to the strop. I use Shapton 1000 and 8000 ceramics which are awesome, they don't need to be soaked and seem to hold flat pretty well. Would a 16000 really make that much difference? I would think it would make the strop redundant at the least.

  2. #2
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    I personally do. I typically run a 1K Shapton Pro, 5K Shapton Pro and finish on the 12K Shapton Pro or of late the 16K Shapton glass. Right after grinding the bevel back and starting a fresh micro bevel I skip the 5K. Once the micro bevel is no longer micro I start hitting the 5K in between. After the secondary bevel is about half the size of the entire bevel I will go back to the grinder. I personally use the LN honing guide therefore am not free handing my sharpening. I have no reason to stop using the guide as it is so quick for me I just don't see the benefit of switching to strictly free hand. My results are extremely consistent and razor sharp.

    Having said all of this, I don't think there is a big benefit from 8K to 16K. There is a spreadsheet somewhere out there with the particle size of the different brand abrasives and if memory serves me correctly Shapton typically rates their stones much higher than most brands relative to actual particle size of the abrasive. Years ago I used to dig into all this hoopla about sharpening but at this point my method is so automatic I'm just not interested in changing anything.

  3. #3
    It depends on what you're doing. I think there's more chance of lasting benefit on plane irons than on chisels due to the fixturing of the blade and better control of the chip (both thickness and evenness.). I doubt there's much benefit to a roughing plane iron where you're hogging off trash, but there might be in a final smoother on clean, abrasive free wood.

    Several sharpening experts claim some additional benefit out of super fine honing. Theoretically, the edge should last a bit longer because of leaving the surface steel more damage free from prior grit. The trouble is that if there's any abrasive or corrosive residue in the wood, that ultra fine finish wears off vanishingly fast... As in the 1st pass and the beautiful mirror finish is already tracked by scratches...

    I can't point to any benefit on wood in my own work with chisels from going finer than P1500 (around 1000 grit) prior to stropping or buffing. The wood scratches my edges up worse than that after a few passes... I tested out stopping at coarser grits and did see a reduction in edge life below P1000 (around 600 grit.) prior to stropping or buffing. That's way way coarser than anything you're talking about, though, and chisel edges take a massive beating compared to planes.

    I will say, the silky feeling of the first few clean passes on a super finely honed edge is something else. I just wish it lasted longer on my edges.

  4. #4
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    I usually stop at 2500 grit....then a strop with green compound....which is what those 2 planes were sharpened to..
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  5. #5
    Nope. DMT Extra Fine (only 1200 grit!) and then strop.

  6. #6
    I go from the Tormek straight to a 4000 grit water stone and then hit the stropping wheel on the Tormek for a few seconds.

    Sometimes I wonder if the internet gurus sharpening on those one million grit stones (or whatever the number is) are doing it just to sell stones.

  7. #7
    I've been watching RC make those fluffy full width shaving with his 16000 grit stone on end grain


    That's awesome! How fine a stone do you have to use to get a 16000 grit stone that sharp?

  8. #8
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    Hardee har har! Yeah, I could have worded that better.

  9. #9
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    Whoever is stropping is going above 8000 to around 10k-12k.

    The thing is, though, that a stone grit isn't the only factor in the equation. You also need steel that can be polished and most importantly hold this edge. There's no point in polishing it to such a high grit for an edge to crumble on a first cut.

    The second question is pragmatism: how often do you need to take a full width end grain shaving? Or are you dissatisfied with the surface finish from your tools? Just to give you some prospective: I'm using synthetic oilstones 90% of the time, no problems taking a full with shaving whatsoever, shavings hold together and all that. My finest stone is fine India (approx. 400 ANSI grit) and then stropping. Chisels leave surface that reflect like a dull mirror and chips look oily. It took me a while to figure which stone works best with a particular chisel though.

  10. #10
    I get tempted to buy a 16,000 stone, so Im very interested in your question.
    Today, I hone to 6000 and then go to the strop with green compound - and my shavings are lovely.
    I dunno!
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  11. #11
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    If I really am planing or paring end grain or concerned about tearout or am working with soft wood or something, I finish on a blue black arkansas and bare leather. Grit doesn't really apply here, but I'm guessing it would be around 12-14k or something. This is how I finish my straight razors, and I can get an incredible shave off of this stone.

    But most of the time, a Lily White Washita followed by 30-40 strokes on a plain leather strop will give me a very fine edge that is easily enough. Again it's hard to quantify grit. The stone itself is probably technically a really low grit, like 500-800 or something, but the resulting edge I get is probably around 5-6k.

    Occasionally I sharpen on waterstones and use a cheap but effective Jnat with similar results as a hard arkansas, maybe 8-9k or so. I haven't found coarser stone that is as versatile as the Washita though.

    I used to just use a fine India and a leather strop with compound, sometimes with a soft ark to bridge the gap. That worked just fine too.

  12. #12
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    I've never gone above 3,000, now nor even before you could buy such a thing. How could I ever do woodworking for 50 years without mirrored tools!

  13. #13
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    I've been going from an 8000 grit diamond stone to stropping... but even with a 25 degree blade in a Veritas LAJ I'm just getting powder off end-grain. Where am I going wrong?

  14. #14
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    There is a spreadsheet somewhere out there with the particle size of the different brand abrasives and if memory serves me correctly Shapton typically rates their stones much higher than most brands relative to actual particle size of the abrasive.
    Here is one copied from the internet:

    Abrrasive Grit Chart 2019.jpg

    • See my next post for a more recent chart.

    It appears a Shapton 5000 has the same particle size (3µ) as the Norton 8000, variations abound.

    This piece was done with a #5:

    Reflection in Wood.jpg

    To the right of the dark smudge on the left is the face of a piece planed with a freshly sharpened blade in a jack plane. Taking a picture of the smoothed face is difficult. The real question may be did the blade create the surface or did the sole of the plane do little burnishing?

    My Norton 8000 grit stone produces a blade capable of taking nice fluffy shavings:

    0•00025%22?.jpg

    This shaving measures in at a little under three ten thousandths of an inch. The micrometer has a friction clutch so the shaving isn't being compressed in the measuring.

    This light of a shaving is only useful at final smoothing.

    In clean wood the surface will not start showing scratches for a while. A light shaving equals less stress/wear on a blade than a heavier shaving.

    A finer stone has been on my want to get list at times. Though now days it is more often oilstones do the sharpening on most of my blades.

    To give it a try some 0.5 micron abrasive sheets were purchased from Lee Valley > https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...for-sharpening

    Still haven't gotten around to giving them a try.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 03-04-2022 at 3:08 AM. Reason: More recent chart
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #15
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    Oops, found a more recent grit chart:

    Abrasives in Micron Scale µ Sizes 2021.jpg

    It has more color!

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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