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Thread: Shop Build...should be a fun journey...

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
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    10,222
    Jim, you said no plumbing about a bathroom. It will be a pain to track sawdust into the house to use a toilet, but can be done. The more troublesome issue will be where to clean brushes and the like - y'know, utility sink stuff. The kitchen sink is not a great solution. How about a not-to-code sink in or just outside the shop? It would discharge on to a gravel pad. The water source would be a tank you fill occasionally with a garden hose.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Meredith, NH
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    185
    Concerning plumbing, I had a small septic tank installed for the shop as there is no sewer where I live.

    Regards,

    Phil

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
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    3,752
    Could you use a cistern/water filter combo and septic tank to provide water (collected from gutters) and sewage? I would think you would get enough rain there to fill it (Bucks county had 48" of rain last year. Not sure if that's enough, but it is a whole bunch). Or could add water by hose to the tank periodically if needed. A method used in lots of off grid houses.

    Added expense, but nothing like having a utility sink in your shop.
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 03-03-2022 at 12:42 PM.
    - Its not that Im so smart, its just that I stay with problems longer. Albert Einstein
    - Welcome to Florida. Where the old folks visit their parents

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    McKinney, TX
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    2,045
    Glad to see you’re on your way. Interesting,fun, and stressful times ahead.
    Steve Jenkins, McKinney, TX. 469 742-9694
    Always use the word "impossible" with extreme caution

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Okotoks AB
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    We're all gonna run up you're costs in a hurry here. Hope you figured in a 200% contingency in the budget

    Personally, I'd forgo the radiant heat. I don't have it & don't miss it. Well ducted forced air heat works wonders. There I just saved you a bundle. But the bathroom, that's something that I'd find a way to make work, even if it was a lift pump to the house sewer. $$$

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    64,716
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wurster View Post
    Good luck with the build, Jim.

    Sounds like your zoning process will be a lot better than what it might have been in your previous township. How anybody can build anything in Buckingham is beyond me...
    It was rough in 2007 with the house addition for sure, but that was when the township had their own inspectors that "thought very well of themselves". Since they changed to using a third party for those things, it got a lot easier and some antiquated ordinances are also gone...like the the one that forced us to use copper for hot/cold water in the addition rather than PEX. It was a really stupid ordinance because...acidic water.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Yetka View Post
    Jim
    I would go 6" slab with radiant.
    Radiant isn't on the table for this project, both for cost and because I prefer the minisplit solution that I can install myself. If I lived a lot farther north and at a higher elevation, it would be more likely to be on the table, but not for here in the Delaware Valley that has only two months, if that, of cold weather and excessive humidity during the much longer summer season.


    You say the design comes down to cost. But the primary factor should be happy wife.
    She's happy regardless.

    -----

    For those suggesting plumbing, it's not going to happen. Sewer is required to head to the street. On-septic of any kind is not permitted in the jurisdiction. I will have direct access to the kitchen (albeit via the outdoors) and will use the stainless steel kitchen sink as I did at the previous shop for cleaning my gun. (I only use waterborne products) The powder room is right there, too. I couldn't add it at the previous shop because that would mean the building could potentially be used as an apartment which was forbidden in that township, so I'm used to it. The ultimate bottom line, however is that plumbing for a project like this in this location could easily add $20 to the price tag.


    Frank, I'm sure that the suggestions are just payback for all the money I caused others to spend, err....invest...over the years from helpful suggestions of my own.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 03-03-2022 at 3:03 PM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    64,716
    Zoning Application is in for the verification letter. Once I have that, I can get serious with quotes and so forth.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    69
    Thanks for sharing your shop build. Looks like it will be a lot fun and stress. I'm eagerly following

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    64,716
    Here's a partial view of the plot plan...the rear area that has no PII. It should be helpful in understanding how I'm planning to site the shop building in the back yard

    PartialPlot.jpg
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #25
    In my previous shop, I had 3/4 plywood on treated 2x4 sleepers (with vapor barrier and insulation) over the concrete. It was very nice. I'll be doing the same in my current workshop this summer, many years later than I wanted to. That might be an option for you; much easier on the back and you get some insulation from the cold slab and no moisture wicking through. Plus it can be removed in case some weirdo future owner wants to park a car in there

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Moscow, ID
    Posts
    408
    Congratulations on getting things moving, Jim. This is going to be quite the project!

    It's too bad you can't plumb in water and drain lines. Not only for a bathroom, but for a slop/cleanup sink and a supply of water for things like wet sanding/grinding to thinning finishes and cleaning up glue. I hope you can at least have a water spigot near the shop so you don't have to go all the way to the house for water.

    Don't forget a fridge (mini or full) so you can have beverages on hand. That will be part of my eventual shop build.

    Derek

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    N CA
    Posts
    1,234
    I think this will be fun for all of us. I agree on your choice to not do the radiant heat. I’ve installed a lot of it and can source everything, tubing, boiler, controls, etc at wholesale or below and chose not to do it. I do not miss it. I wear good shoes in the shop and am comfortable on the concrete. Yes, radiant is great, but I agree that in your area you are better off with a whiz-bang top of the line mini-split. I would suggest that you look at building orientation for solar. We are at about the same latitude I think and I used an 8/12 pitch. I use the Sunseeker app for that and it is quite comprehensive. My system, which i self installed, has zeroed our electric bill for the property which is a major savings here with our rates.
    Last edited by Jack Frederick; 03-03-2022 at 10:08 PM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Winterville, NC (eastern NC)
    Posts
    2,342
    Congrats on the shop planning; I know you are looking forward to having a 'real' shop to play in. Stick built on a reinforced concrete slab will likely be your best option cost wise. 2 X 6 wall studs will give you lots of insulation and sound proofing to keep neighbors happy. Treated sleepers, plastic and plywood T & G can give you a wood floor without loosing much head space.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    MT
    Posts
    682
    Jim - looking forward to following along with your progress.

    A couple of thoughts based on my recent experience:

    - High windows - let in winter light and sun and not so much the sun in the summer
    - South windows as much as you can make work practically, for great light
    - I am really happy with my painted 3/4" plywood floor on sleepers

    Keep the pics coming.
    Regards,

    Kris

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    64,716
    Andrew, there is consideration for a wood floor over the concrete, but that idea has to be balanced vs budget, especially with building materials pricing escalating again. I'm not super concerned with a cold floor because of our climate, the likelihood of the slab having insulation under it and the fact that I use anti-fatigue mats. But if I can find a way to swing the extra cost for a sleeper/insulation/wood floor, I'll make it happen.

    Derek, the (only) exterior spigot on the house is as close to the shop as it could get and as noted, there's nearly direct access to the kitchen if I want/need hot. Already have the fridge...we had a small one at the other property that we kept beverages in. It will be going in the shop.

    Jack, one side of the roof is south-facing, but solar on the shop would require removing all the live trees on the property. Not only would that go against the whole plan of building without destroying live trees, the jurisdiction wouldn't permit it, either. We've also ruled out solar for the house at this point because we do not believe we will be on this property long enough to justify...and that was a hard decision because there were non-financial reasons for our interest in solar for both normal power and backup power.

    Kris, three of the four planned windows are on the south side and even without being up high, they will provide a winter benefit when there are no leaves but not present a problem for cooling in the summer because of those same leaves being there.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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