Shop Build...should be a fun journey...

[Tom M King]

As is said around here, "You rollin' ".

[Wes Grass]

Rattling this around in my head for a couple days, regarding insulation and all.

I started thinking about the spray foam under the roof, like this. And thinking of possibly getting away with 10' walls, instead of 12, by using scissor trusses. Pictures online looked decent without a ceiling, maybe I could even dress them up a bit to *vaguely* resemble timber framing ;-)

Looking at Jim's, I think I'd be perfectly happy with it all exposed as is. Makes hanging air lines and power cables a whole lot easier as well. And no ridge/soffit vents either. That would be nice to keep the wasps, et all, out of the 'attic'.

[Bruce Page]

Great looking pallet jack. The walls look good too.

[Jim Becker]

Rattling this around in my head for a couple days, regarding insulation and all.

I started thinking about the spray foam under the roof, like this. And thinking of possibly getting away with 10' walls, instead of 12, by using scissor trusses. Pictures online looked decent without a ceiling, maybe I could even dress them up a bit to *vaguely* resemble timber framing ;-)

Looking at Jim's, I think I'd be perfectly happy with it all exposed as is. Makes hanging air lines and power cables a whole lot easier as well. And no ridge/soffit vents either. That would be nice to keep the wasps, et all, out of the 'attic'.

Interestingly, I kinda wanted to go with scissor trusses from the beginning and the cost differential was pretty minimal. But at that point in the process, I did not know how I was going to insulate the building. If I didn't go spray foam, a ceiling is a must and with scissor trusses, blown-in wasn't an option. So I opted for the regular trusses. Since they are 4' OC, they don't really give any feeling of "closed in" like 2' OC would, so as you note, it's pretty much a non issue. And I may use the "flat" plane to my advantage when it comes to dust collection ductwork, running it on top of the lower chords of the trusses instead of suspending it below. Same for my air lines. That means zero light blockage, too.

You are spot on about the "critters"...not only is there no air infiltration with the closed cell spray foam envelop, there are no meaningful pathways for creatures like wasps to migrate in and out. And I have just enough spiders to keep the smaller pests at bay.

[Frank Pratt]

with scissor trusses, blown-in wasn't an option.

I have scissor trusses on my house with blown in insulation and it has stayed put.

[Wes Grass]

Jim,

I do remember the post about truss selection, and leaving your options open on insulation regarding the cost. And estimates during design and planning were 'excessive', and then 'not so bad' when the time came.

Frank,

The house here is mostly scissor truss, but it's 12/12 on the roof so the ceiling is pretty steep as well (I haven't tried to measure). I wouldn't expect anything but batt to stay put, unless the roof were sprayed underneath before doing the ceilings. I'm not sure that was even a thing when this house was built.

The diagrams I saw for 4/12 roof were 2/12, or even 3/12 for the ceiling. Not a lot of slope, maybe blow-in would be just fine. But ... and I think I saw this in Jim's posts somewhere ... dry walling the ceiling requires a bunch of stringers, or whatever they're called, to get screws in on a 16 (or 24?) inch spacing when the trusses are on 4' centers. This is one of things that made me choke when I was laying it out as stick built, how many trusses there are on a 40+ foot building at even 24" centers. And I was assuming the worst at 16".

Or I'm not understanding the typical ceiling installation of drywall. I know 5/8" vs 1/2" on walls (*), but ... The only thing I've personally done, that I remember, is repair in the downstairs in my cabin, which is 2x12 joists on 16" c/c. Upstairs is all Cedar. The only remodeling you can do there is vacuuming the cobwebs.

(*) And double thickness with staggered joints for various areas. Garage to living space for sure, and maybe any ceiling with living space above?

[Jim Becker]

I have scissor trusses on my house with blown in insulation and it has stayed put.

Yes, you are correct, it can be used, but there wouldn't have been enough room for the installer to crawl through safely to put it in with the dimensions of the 4/12 scissor trusses my building company makes...unless they are a midget. And as Wes mentions, I would have had to install a whole bunch of lumber "up there" to hold up a ceiling. Choices fall the way they do.

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Today, I installed all of the 120v outlets and covers and all 120v circuits are now live. It's not hard work but repetitive and boring. It's done. Most of the 240v machine outlets will wait until I move stuff as I'm reusing the receptacle and breakers from the temporary gara-shop, but I have a few that will get done since they are "new" hardware.

One of the things that was finally hooked up today is the switch that will provide a means to turn off the compressor from the front of the building. This switch is just for 120v control of a contactor and it has a pilot light that, um...lights...when the circuit to the compressor is engaged as a visual reminder. The contactor is in a very large j-box in the wall just to the right of the switch. (it's ventilated so cool air can enter from the front and exit from the top into the wall cavity which is open at the top of the wall..screen behind those holes, not that anything poked in there can touch anything electrical due to positioning) Any small amount of heat that might be present with the contactor engaged is not going to be a worry.

IMG_3222.jpg

[Frank Pratt]

Good point about accessibility space. You can't do blown in if the poor installer can't even get up there. I should have mentioned that my roof is only 6:12, which isn't terribly steep on the underside.

Jim, before you sell off the airless sprayer, why not hit the foam and trussed with a coat of white. In a few years the foam turns a pretty dark brownish color that doesn't look very nice and sucks the light up.

[George Yetka]

Are you doing horse mats on floor once your machines are set up?

And when does the crown go up?

[Jim Becker]

Jim, before you sell off the airless sprayer, why not hit the foam and trussed with a coat of white. In a few years the foam turns a pretty dark brownish color that doesn't look very nice and sucks the light up.

I thought about it, but it's way more work than I'm interested in doing and there is no light shining up in that space. The LED lighting is "very bright" 5000K and gets good bounce off the floor and now the walls. I've also disposed of all the floor protection in the trash that was picked up this morning.

Are you doing horse mats on floor once your machines are set up?

And when does the crown go up?

I have not decided on what mats I'll use in the space in areas that I don't already have covered. It will not be horse stall mats, however, as I don't want that thickness.

"Crown". LOL I'm starting on the "crown" today, but it will look strangely like a whole bunch of backwoods sound mitigation.

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Installed three of the approximately 6-7 240v 30a machine twist lock outlets so I can establish general machine power as I intend to move the slider first as I need to use it to do the window and door boxes. It will cost me an extra 30 amp breaker but that's not all that much money compared to the convenience of being able to move things in stages. The big compressor will also move while the space is more or less empty because I need to lift it with the Big Orange Power Tool onto the platform where it will live.

And now to start the Rube Goldberg sound stuff.

[Bob Riefer]

For floor covering, I've used these for years now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K2TWXD6...roduct_details


Knowing how thorough and well-informed you are, I'm sure I'm not giving any net-new advice here. But for others following along, there's lots of manufacturers and price points to pick from but I can only vouch for these that I have abused for a decade. Very comfortable to walk on, friendly to dropped tools or boards, easy to sweep, easy to pickup and move if needed, carts roll over them nicely (but mobile tools would be too heavy I think). And... very easy on the wallet.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the link, Bob. I really like the mats I have been using for many years, but I'm loath to do business with the source anymore for personal reasons. The 144 sq ft kit of what you posted about ... maybe a few of them ... might do the job in this new space to augment what remains from the old shop. Too early to make those kind of decisions yet. One the benches and tools are moved in I can consider what the need will actually be.

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Got some of the sound bounce abatement ideas installed with a lot more to go. I can already hear a difference.

[Tom Jenson]

Looking forward to see what you are doing for sound abatement. Also interested to hear what challenges you hinted at having with the new mini split. I was going to pick one up as a Christmas present to myself, but may wait on that.

[Kris Cook]

Jim - awesome progress. I used a NAPA automotive roll-around stool when wiring my outlets; definitely saved the back some.

Your build is about 3.5 year ahead of mine as well as far as getting to completion. Keep rockin'

[Tom Bender]

I predict a ceiling some few years in the future. It makes the space much nicer and you will spend a lot of time there. Pulled ahead it can be a major part of your noise management scheme.

In my basement shop with 97" headroom I didn't want to give up any. I ran 2 1/2" x 1/4" slats on the bottom of the joists then set the tiles on top of them. Armstrong makes cheap fiberglass tiles with plastic skin that can be bent in half to install.