New Shop Advice

[Joe Beaulieu]

Hi,

I am moving from California back to the east coast. We bought a house in Delaware as our retirement castle . One of the features of this new property is an almost new 30' x 30' pole barn that I am confiscating and using as my wood shop. The shop is not insulated but Delaware doesnt get all that cold. (Famous last words...) I am kind of wondering what I should do to the place before the container arrives with all the shop stuff in it? I dont have enough money to completely insulate it. I could scrape up enough green to have the floor coated in some fashion. Its nicely poured unfinished concrete currently.

I have an old (25 years plus) Jet dust collector. Its their standard 2 HP 220 volt model - not sure the air flow etc. I have never been all that impressed with the air draw on it to be frank, but it could have been my old somewhat spaghetti like shop dust collection setup. I was considering getting a pro in to tell me the best way to arrange the shop and then run new duct work and grab a modern dust collector/separator system. I think that might be the best way to go, although I am pretty afeared of how much of my hard earned dollars will get sucked up by a new system.

I am probably getting a bit ahead of myself. My shop in CA shop was a very typical home workshop - Sawstop 3 HP, Laguna 14" Band saw, Jet 6" jointer , Dewalt suitcase planer, Bosch chop saw , nice Diefenbach bench, Tormek, nice collection of hand tools, a lot of Japanese saws and chisels and planes, `I am really excited to get there and set up` the whole shop. So I am looking for the best way to start. Ideas are very welcome!

Thanks Folks.

Joe

[Jim Becker]

Joe, while you have a wide open building...insulate it and put up a wall surface that will fit your needs. Get your electrical and lighting setup. Paint, Add HVAC if you'd like. (think: humidity) Then move in the tools. Given the wonderful square footage you have, organize things so you have space available for assembly storage, finishing, etc.

And welcome in advance to the east coast!

[William Hodge]

It's important to air seal before insulation. Without air sealing, the insulation acts as an air filter while the cold air comes in.

With a pole barn, about the best option is sheet rock on the inside, and blown in dense pack cellulose. The reason for cellulose is to avoid climate damage inherent in plastic foam insulation.

[David Stone (CT)]

Living in the Northeast (admittedly, farther north than DE), I'd think some sort of heat is imperative if you're going to use the shop year-round. If heat/insulation for the whole space isn't in the cards immediately due to budget, maybe there's a way to partition or provide for winter warmth in at least part of the space.

Regardless, a 30' x 30' shop AND retirement sounds great--I'm jealous. Enjoy!

[Bryan Lisowski]

Delaware gets just as cold as other places in the Mid Atlantic. I would forget about doing a coating on the floor, I would work on insulation even if you do a wall at a time.

[andy bessette]

...Delaware doesnt get all that cold...
I was considering getting a pro in to tell me the best way to arrange the shop and then run new duct work and grab a modern dust collector/separator system...

Ha! to the first.

And don't waste your money hiring someone to tell you how to arrange your own shop. Instead use paper dolls on a hand-drawn floor plan to find layouts that could work for you. Also try chalk outlines on the floor. Expect to try some layouts and make changes as you go.

[Ron Selzer]

insulate before moving anything in at all, will never be as easy again

[Kevin Jenness]

Speaking as someone who has worked in a shop with very rough finish and added on/ insulated/ etc. later I will say buy once, cry once. That only works if you can afford it, but moving a shop full of tools around while doing wiring, insulation and interior sheathing is annoying to say the least. I suspect even in Delaware you are going to want insulation. If you can afford to lay a wood floor over the slab your feet and tools will be happier. A heat pump (mini-split) is a good option for heating and cooling. If you are willing to rough it in an uninsulated shell your investment will be low, but if you plan on spending a lot of time there you will appreciate creature comforts, especially good lighting.

You can figure out you own shop layout as Andy says, if you draw in cad it is easy to do. A new dust collector and ductwork is going to set you back probably $3-5k, depending. Used gear can be found for less if you have time and interest. You can design the ductwork yourself with this guide https://airhand.com/wp-content/uploa...sign_Guide.pdf

[Charles Coolidge]

DE you say, well then salt air and rust management should be part of the planning. Also heat and humidity control the humidity can get nasty at times.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Having recently done this myself in a similar sized shop in CT I can say there are some imperatives.....if you have the ability to add some sort of insulation I say go for it, you'll definitely appreciate the 10 degrees difference it will make and when you install some sort of heating you will appreciate the savings there every month as well. Everyone has different needs and abilities but I personally can't work well in a cold shop...my hands just don't work lol. Anything above 55 is reasonable, but call me a baby, I like it mid 60s. Now, if insulation isn't in the cards then do what you can but you will definitely need some sort of heat source as mentioned above. I didn't add any insulation as I had finished walls and didn't want to take them down, what ever is in there is in there, but I DID know that I needed heat. If you're building is attached to your residence or sometimes even on the same property you could potentially have issues with insurance as to what type of heat will be allowed. In your case it sounds like it is detached, but it is still a possibility depending on local laws and the like.

A lot of guys like to install a wood stove of some sort....2 issues....1) dust build up volatility risk, and 2)required time to come up to temp and or lack of climate control at night. I'm sorry to tell you but DE does get cold, basically anything above the Virginia line is going to have snow several times per winter and sub freezing temps often. This becomes an issue in your shop for the simple fact of moisture freeze whether it's in wood, or your chemicals stored in the shop (finishes, glues, etc). You NEED HEAT and preferably something you can leave on cold nights or automated to maintain above freezing. There are lots of options, wood stove, pellet heater, propane heater, etc....I went with a Mini-Split....Now these things can get expensive....I priced out several contractors to come and install one and I think the cheapest quote I got was about 5k and that would have been a sub par system....I searched around and found Mr. Cool....their specialty product, and I believe they're the only one, is a DIY Mini-Split that comes pre charged. Not very cheap, but certainly much more affordable than the other brands. I installed their largest unit (at the time, don't know if they have changed) which is a 36k BTU single unit. I can tell you that this thing does a GREAT JOB. Cost me somewhere around $2500 with the mounting bracket and just required a friend to lift it up (you may need an electrician to hook it up depending how comfortable you are). In the winter I leave it in freeze protect mode every night which will maintain 46*. It will maintain that very well while running in a low draw mode (in other words it's not blasting out high heat to maintain it's barely warm when that is on, but does it)...Even when it's around the low 30s outside I can get my shop up to 70 in a couple of hours and usually it will go up to 55-60 in 40min from the 46*. In the summer, if I want to use the AC it works even better (but honestly I probably only turn it on a handful of times the whole season). Yes, you will have additional electric cost every month, but it's really not bad considering.

That has to be your biggest concern IMO, but there are other things that will definitely be important...

1) Get your electric sorted - you may need a sub panel or a bigger one...based on the machines you mentioned a 60 amp is probably enough but if you can get 100 go for it. Have plenty of outlets including multiple 230v lines. This can get pricey if someone does it, but that's up to you.
2) Dust collection - Your 2hp JET will get you by, especially if you are rolling from machine to machine, but if you have the ability prepare to get a bigger system. Depending on what you plan on doing with your equipment (any upgrades or new machines) realize that you probably are going to have longer runs and you'll need more pull. A 3-5hp Cyclone is probably going to be your best bet, though a lot of folks have been talking about the Harvey unit. I think it's on the smaller side power wise but apparently works differently and may be just as efficient. I have no experience short of research but make sure if you do try it that you wait for a sale (which is regularly now), earlier it was 4k now it can often be had for $2500 or so. I went with a 5hp Clearvue as the most cost efficient Cyclone new....if you can find one use even better.....someone on here had a 5hp 1800 model in CT up for sale for a good discount (don't know if still available). They're a bit of work to get installed, but nothing you can't do in a weekend. Ducting however is a big issue. You have 3 options (again depending on skill set)...

1) PVC - cheapest, don't think you need to worry about grounding really (some will argue), but hardest to install and source parts, but you can do it yourself or with a friend expect $500-1000
2) Spiral Pipe - much more expensive but lower priced for metal - you can do this yourself, but it will be more expensive to get the pipe unless you have an HVAC contractor who will get it for you commerically - you will have to search hard to get someone to do it for what would be considered reasonable. Expect $2500-3500 reasonably....some guys gave me quote over 7k insane!
3) Nordfab or other similar clamp together pipe - This is expensive but the best so to speak. The upside is with good consideration you can do it yourself. The downside is nothing is easily available so you have to order everything most likely. Expect somewhere around $4k and you have to do it yourself.

Floor

I too had nice concrete - I thought about having epoxy installed and again it's expensive. Decided to give it a shot myself and bought a couple of the rust o leum kits. I have to say 2 1/2 years late still 100% and very happy for about $350 all in. Won't lie, don't want to do it again, lot of prep work, but the results are very good. It's not high polish the way pros would do it but for 10x less, very happy. Another option would just be sealing your concrete well if you can. If you're not going to be putting hot tires on it though I wouldn't pay someone else to do it unless the $ doesn't matter to you.

Beyond that, this is definitely the time to think about upgrading any tools you've been considering. Think about selling anything you might want out in CA so you don't have to cart it here and use that money to get into some new machines....looking at your list I'd say get rid of that jointer and planer and buy a good combo machine....Hammer/Minimax something of that level. They're pricey but really money unbelievably well spent....depending what kind of projects you do of course. Beyond that....the SS is good, but consider a slider (like I am) you'll probably get close to what you paid for your machine so there's no loss. While on this, I can tell you unless you've already worked this out, that regular movers are not going to be happy or give you a good price if they know they're going to be moving machines (especially if there are any stairs involved)...you might have to hire additional labor, and then you also have to worry about how well it will be rigged and transported across the country. That extra cost might be better spent, but that's totally up to you!! And BTW, if this is a few months out, the wait on some of these machines is long so order now and sell when you're able so you can potentially have them machine when it's time.

BEST OF LUCK....other guys might have more or better advice....this has just been my recent experience!

[Jack Frederick]

Good move! I’d suggest adding a sealer to the slab prior to the container being unpacked. Agree that the insulation is important. I looked inot insulating my 30x30 myself, but the quotes I got from my local pro company came in at about what I could buy the material for.

[Mike Wilkins]

Try to insulate and air seal prior to moving your equipment in, as it is not easy to do so after. I failed to do so and it was a bear to move and detach all the stuff on the walls. I had OSB screwed to the studs so removal was easy. Caulk all cracks where the framing meets the exterior sheathing so cold air can't find its way in.