Laguna bandsaw vibration leaving me out in the cold

[wayne booker]

Hi all, I've not posted here in quite some time. I have an issue I'd like to share and see if anyone has useful insight that might help me.

I just bought a new Laguna 18BX bandsaw. Problem is that from the first time turning it on it has this strong vibration that is felt on the table and more strongly in the upper assembly. Now first thought is the upper wheel is out of balance. Easy. I called Laguna support and they sent me a new wheel, no change, still vibrates like crazy. They've sent me a new upper wheel, new tires, even a new blade and none of it has changed the vibration. The last time I talked to the support guy he tells me that bandsaws just have vibrations and that's all there is to it.

I told him I was going to buy some aftermarket tires. I bought a set of Carter tires and put them on with no difference. I downloaded an vibration analysis app on my phone and used that to try to quantify the vibration so I could have some hard data to tell me when a difference is made. So far the only thing that has made it any better is de-tensioning the blade. I have it so loose that I'm almost afraid of running it. I know this isn't right. The other thing that made it a little better was taking off the huge 1 1/4" Resew King blade and put on a 3/8" blade. I have this tensioned properly and it runs a bit better with vibration but I still don't like it, I can still feel it shake on the top.

I have another call in to Laguna support three days ago and another call yesterday and all I get is a voicemail. I'm feeling left out in the cold by Laguna. A large bandsaw should not run this way, it will eventually shake itself apart.

If anyone has any helpful words, I'd really like to hear it. Thanks so much.

Wayne

[Greg Quenneville]

Did you run it without the blade? That way you would eliminate the motor/belt/bottom wheel. It may only seem like the upper wheel is the problem.

I have a 24” machine from a different maker. It doesn’t vibrate.

[wayne booker]

I did run it without the blade, very slight vibration. What I would expect, very acceptable to me. With the blade turning both wheels, bad vibration. That was why he sent me the new upper wheel.

Also I measured the concentricity at the cast iron tire channel with the tires removed with a dial indicator. I'm reading 0.005" runout. That doesn't seem like much to me. Both wheels measure the same 0.005". Both wheels measure 0.010" runout measuring from the side of the wheels, so measuring wobble. And it can be out of center but still be balanced, so I'm taking that into account too.

The tires are flat enough I think, I don't feel any high or low spots with a fingertip when I turn the wheels.

I'm starting to think he sent me a bad replacement wheel maybe. I dunno.

[George Makra]

Change the blade.

[David Publicover]

I have a 18BX that runs smoothly. Are you on a mobile base or fixed? Have you checked that the feet are all in contact with the floor properly and it’s level? What kind of floor? Did you try another drive belt? Belt or blades would be my first suspects…
You can test the wheels for balance to see if that’s the issue.
Good luck!

[Alan Lightstone]

Your goal should be that test where you put a coin on edge and it doesn't fall over when the bandsaw is running. My larger saw from a different manufacturer does this with ease.

I agree that checking the belt and blades is next. And make sure that you can't tip the bandsaw at all when it's off (to check the feet / mobile cart stability).

We know. All of this seems obvious. But something is clearly wrong here.

[Andrew Hughes]

I would like to suggest you look at the floor where the saw sits. See if you have a uneven spot. Try running the saw and prying up on one of the corner see if it runs smoother.
Good Luck

[Eric Schmid]

It seems to me, if a brand new saw is not performing properly, it is up to the manufacturer to determine the cause and provide the remedy.

Who is diagnosing the cause of the problem? It appears, from your description that Laguna does not agree there is a problem or has determined that your expectations aren’t reasonable. The first course of action is to find agreement with Laguna, or the dealer you bought it from, that there is a problem and whose responsibility it is.

Once the manufacturer has agreed there is a problem, the next question is what do they propose to solve that problem. It’s important in some situations for the manufacturer to come to this conclusion and not be lead by the customer.

It’s difficult to know from your post who is suggesting these remedies (new wheel, blade, tires). Are you suggesting them and they are complying? Or did you initially describe the problem and they suggested the remedy?

I imagine if you took a video of the saw under load (blade tensioned) and posted it here, others might be able to tell you if the vibration is reasonable. Then send it to Laguna and see if they agree.

[wayne booker]

All really good responses, thank you all for the help.

The parts that they have sent me were all decided by Laguna support. They sent me a new Laguna Resew King blade because I bought the blade with the saw. There is no difference between the two blades in vibration so I'm ruling the blade out for now.

The saw sits on my concrete garage floor. I didn't buy the mobile kit so it sits on rubber feet. They are level enough that the saw doesn't move at all when pushed from any direction.

I also asked the support guy what their criteria was for pass/fail for vibration. He said it was the nickel test on the table. I took video of this and it fails but not every time. Turn the saw on and it first likes to dance around and about 1/3 of the time it will fall over. It seems to vary depending on where on the table I put the nickel and what orientation the nickel is when it starts. The fact that it falls at all is a fail to me and support guy agrees.

I can check concentricity of the wheels but I don't know how to test the balance. There's too much resistance in the bearings I think to allow the wheel to turn by itself so a heavy spot will fall to the bottom. I tried this on the upper wheel by putting magnets on it, wheel stays put.

I don't know how to test the drive belt, it's back there and not very accessible when the wheel is on. Maybe have to remove the wheel?

I'm going to try calling Laguna again this morning, see how it goes.

Thanks all.

wayne

[Dave Roock]

It seems to me, if a brand new saw is not performing properly, it is up to the manufacturer to determine the cause and provide the remedy.

Who is diagnosing the cause of the problem? It appears, from your description that Laguna does not agree there is a problem or has determined that your expectations aren’t reasonable. The first course of action is to find agreement with Laguna, or the dealer you bought it from, that there is a problem and whose responsibility it is.

Once the manufacturer has agreed there is a problem, the next question is what do they propose to solve that problem. It’s important in some situations for the manufacturer to come to this conclusion and not be lead by the customer.

It’s difficult to know from your post who is suggesting these remedies (new wheel, blade, tires). Are you suggesting them and they are complying? Or did you initially describe the problem and they suggested the remedy?

I imagine if you took a video of the saw under load (blade tensioned) and posted it here, others might be able to tell you if the vibration is reasonable. Then send it to Laguna and see if they agree.

Excellent suggestions. Actually cutting something with it would show more info than all else.

[Tom Trees]

Should be no vibration of the lower wheel, a tight belt and severe misalignment can damage bearings in a few seconds, belts don't need be tight, especially not so when troubleshooting.
I made a video on wheel alignment and troubleshooting for an Italian bandsaw, should you look on youtube.
Basically machine plummed and wheels aligned depth wise and top wheel is scooted into centre if that adjustment is there.
After which wheels coplanar and also in line with frame using a beam and a single accurate block taped onto it
what's then used for checking both sides of the lower wheel, using the top wheel for reference, that wee block sits on the rim,
making sure the east/west adjustment is spot on.
This must be done with a stout blade installed or the top wheel goes bananas, so one can't attach the beam to the wheels as a single adjustment changes everything,
and the blade needs to keep tracking where it wants to go.
Not sayin some rare earth magnets inset into the block wouldn't be great!

Tom





That's where I would start,

[wayne booker]

That's the odd part about all this. I did resaw a board about 12" long x 6" wide and with the Resaw King blade it cut beautifully. Very smooth finish. I fully expected it to be rather rough but it wasn't. I don't know what else to look for in a cut for diagnostics but to me it looked good. I notice that the blade between the guides is being held very steady, I don't see much deflection between the guides until the power turns off and it spins down. Then I see it go through several resonant cycles of deflection.

[wayne booker]

Should be no vibration of the lower wheel, a tight belt and severe misalignment can damage bearings in a few seconds, belts don't need be tight, especially not so when troubleshooting.
I made a video on wheel alignment and troubleshooting for an Italian bandsaw, should you look on youtube.
Basically machine plummed and wheels aligned depth wise and top wheel is scooted into centre if that adjustment is there.
After which wheels coplanar and also in line with frame using a beam and a single accurate block taped onto it
what's then used for checking both sides of the lower wheel, using the top wheel for reference, that wee block sits on the rim,
making sure the east/west adjustment is spot on.
This must be done with a stout blade installed or the top wheel goes bananas, so one can't attach the beam to the wheels as a single adjustment changes everything,
and the blade needs to keep tracking where it wants to go.
Not sayin some rare earth magnets inset into the block wouldn't be great!

Tom





That's where I would start,

Tom,

Do you have a link for the video?

[Tom Trees]

Thought you might have seen it before Wayne, as I've posted this a number of times.

I only made this video, as there was no one else suggesting to do the same , apart from Marc Spagnuolo mentioning this in a passing comment.
upgraded plumbob magnetic blocks are mentioned in another video dressing tires, (I don't have the techy skills to chop these videos beyond a minute or two)

One could try using a laser but have yet to see how accurate that would be, compared to beam and rule, could do away without needing to remove table,
as no one wants to do that, and seems that most folks are just taking a chance on the machine being alright.

Tom



https://youtu.be/VQ9dmP9yF8E

[glenn bradley]

Change the blade.

He mentions that he did in his initial post.

So vibration is acceptable without the band on. You have replaced the upper wheel, both tires and the blade. If the vibration is greater with the band on and increases with tension I vote that the upper wheel mechanism, not the wheel, s a good suspect.

You have gone way past what I would. I would have returned or exchanged the machine by now. Laguna has a long history of periods of atrocious customer support divided up by short increments of really good service. You may have caught them at the wrong point in their quality biorhythm. This is why I have avoided the brand in general. Not dogging the product, just the business model

For contrast my Grizzly G0513X runs so smooth and so quiet since I took a few minutes to make the wheels co-planer during a belt change that I have to be careful not to walk away and leave it running. It was spooky the first time I fired it up after that effort. Still creeps me out every now and then. If a budget TaiChi bandsaw can run smooth, yours should too.

HOWEVER . . .

You mention that the cut performance is fine so I have to fal back on "what's the problem?". If the machine does what it is supposed to do I would just move on. I see a lot of folks gt hung up on a measurement or a paint job to their detriment. If the vibration is going to make the saw a problem for you, return it or exchange it. Laguna's response of "that's just how it is" is completely unacceptable IF you really need the vibration fixed. Since the saw performs well only you can decide what's important.