Bad job coming

[Jim Becker]

I missed that, too, John. Sheesh...

[Kevin Jenness]

Just checked, and Captains Varnish is now a urethane, so that's out. Looking like the EM2000 is top of the list, right now.

Ease of sanding is the top priority, not durability. It needs to powder up when sanding. The old solvent based Captains Varnish did that. I've never used this conversion varnish, but the conversion varnishes I've done some repairing in the past all powdered up nicely when sanding. Urethane doesn't do that.

I think after this season, I may buy, or build, another pair to keep in rotation. I have building here I can store the extra in. The to-do list is too long right now though. https://www.etsy.com/listing/7584544...hoCj_4QAvD_BwE We have wedding planners wanting to rent it this season, starting in May.

Whatever you do, unless you can get a reliable first hand recommendation based on experience similar to your application, test it first. The professional finishers I have known are conservative for good reason. When they find a product that works they stick with it because the consequences of trying a new product can be major, and especially so in a situation like yours where removing and redoing a coating periodically is built in. The tried and true Captain's varnish formulation has changed and you have no choice but to try something new. You won't be able to test the longevity of new product, but you can at least do a test panel, let it cure and then try removing it. If you can get some samples of different promising coatings you could do some test panels and leave them out for weathering.

Assessing a product based on a manufacturer's description is difficult, especially with waterborne finishes. Target's "conversion varnish" is nothing like the acid catalyzed solvent based cabinet coatings widely used in industry. That's not to say it won't work for you, but the fact that they recommend it for interior and exterior trim and in the next line for yacht interiors (not exteriors) might give you the idea that they don't consider it ideal for projects that get a great deal of sun and weather. Plus the fact that another product (9300) in their lineup is headlined as being for exterior use. Some products have a name like "polyurethane" in their description when they may be nothing at all like the familiar solvent based urethane varnishes.

Assuming a particular product will behave a certain way based on another in the same class can be equally troublesome. I once used some Sherwin Williams conversion varnish that was past its pot life and had a heck of a time removing it by scraping - sanding barely touched it.

I wish I could point you to a specific product but all I can really tell you is watch out. You might try posting on the Woodweb finishing forum as there are a number of full-time pro finishers who post there.

[Tom M King]

Yes, I'm intending to test. I doubt anyone else has experience with what I want for this particular job, pro or not. I'm sure most of what I've learned from past finishes doesn't exist any more.

I started the sanding this morning, and only got two sections of the first door sanded. A good part of that was setting up, and another good part was figuring out how to load the old metal Sand-O-Flex with the new refills. They increased the size of the refill, and I had to try three different methods of getting it in, and all the fingers fed. The good thing is the sandpaper actually lasts longer than the old type, and I think I can do one whole door with one refill.

While I was sanding, I wondered about putting a coat of sanding sealer on them, so the finish doesn't penetrate at all.

The top section of the door was probably harder than the bottom sections. They have at least 8 coats of old varnish on them, and it took two 6" 80 grit disks with the Bosch sander in turbo mode. I think it took over a half hour for that first section, but the second section down went significantly faster. It will take two days to sand them this time.

Tuesday looks like the day to spray. I took a picture, but waiting for it to come in to email.

I noticed the Sun hitting them this morning, and they really don't get direct Sun to amount to anything, and that's before the leaves come out on the trees. They won't get any weather to speak of either. It would actually be good if they held through September, and started to release by late Winter.

Just home for lunch. Will post pictures this evening.

edited to add: John, yes, I don't intend to use crosslinker.

[Carl Beckett]

I did an exterior door for a neighbor a few years ago. Used Epoxy two part marine finish.

It did not do well, would not recommend that (just in case you were considering)

I reach for a cabinet scraper (not paint scraper) on some of these type of finishes on large flat panels.

[Tom M King]

Still waiting on pictures. It took between three and four hours to do the first door. The 6" ROS took the extra varnish right off those two bottom sections, but the Sand-O-FLex couldn't do anything with the varnish that was still good. I scraped those parts inside the depressions around the raised panels, but couldn't use the heat gun because the wind was too strong coming up the hill off the lake.

Eleven minutes to sand the flat sections on the bottom section. Double, or triple that for scraping around the raised panels. That's why I want to eliminate scraping from the future.

I'll do the other door tomorrow, and will spray them with something on Monday, or Tuesday. I have a lot of other stuff to do. I had to stop and blow leaves off the parking area, because we have someone using the house tonight.

[Tom M King]

The 16 mph wind on the lake was probably squeezed up to 20 where I was working right at the top of the hill. Was a good day for sanding. Even though I was using a supplied air hood, any extraneous sanding dust got blown right away.

I forgot to take more pictures after the scraping. The part from the bolts to the outside edges are not seen.

If I make, or buy any more, they're not going to have those grooves in them.

The eleven minutes work was from the third picture to the fourth. That was just the Turbo pass though. The other passes with smaller grits didn't take as long. I think it's some kind of Cedar, that's pretty soft.

edited to add: We've been calling it the rental house, but today a friend suggested we start calling it our guest house. I told her that sounded a little snooty, but she said she didn't think so, that it was just a better name. So, we're going to try calling it our guest house.

[Tom M King]

I think on the top three panels, the only thing that was ever on them was an Alkyd varnish. The bottom two had polyurethane added on top. The 6" Bosch looks like it will cut anything off, but the Sand-O-Flex won't cut the poly. It cut the alkyd fine.

I can't find an alkyd varnish. Sherwin Williams lists one, but I'll be surprised if I can find any. It looks like all that has been discontinued. But then there is all the time required to put that on, and I really want to avoid that too.

[Tom M King]

I'm going with Total Boat Halcyon amber gloss. Water bourne, so I can spray it with the airless. Ordered the 308 tip too.

https://www.totalboat.com/product/ha...gloss-varnish/

Will probably be a royal pain when it comes time to take it off, but maybe I can find a chemical stripper, and power wash it off with the small power washer. It will probably put the bad job off a few years anyway.

I might miss the Tuesday window for spraying, but the sections can just lay in the garage until we get the next good day.

[Kevin Jenness]

Tom, best wishes for good results. I hope you will report back on how this coating holds up after a couple of years.

[Tom M King]

I'll try to remember to. We've owned that house for 4 years. Before that, it sat there at least 3, unoccupied, and I don't know how long before that those doors were last redone, so this stuff should at least be some better than what was on them.

Maybe things will have slowed down by the time I need to redo them to be able to build some more that will have better profiles around the raised panels for scraping. These were not made with any consideration for redoing them. I think I can build some in about the same amount of time as it would take to scrape these.

Anyone need two gallons of EM8000 semi-gloss for half price? It's not here yet, but will probably get here tomorrow.

[Jim Becker]

The Halcyon seems to be a very nice product. I haven't tried it yet, but it's on my list...

[Tom M King]

Set up to go to work on the second door. Supplied air, 6" ROS, Sand-O-Flex, scraper setup

[Tom M King]

Little wind today, but there is still a bit of a light breeze at the top of the hill.

[Tom M King]

Pull slack on cables, and clamp ViseGrips to hold the cable in position.

[Tom M King]

Containers to put hinges, and nuts in. I keep a bunch of these from the dollar store in the mechanic shop for when I take something apart. Take the attachment to the lift off, and top hinges off so the top section comes down first, and hinges are left on one end to hold each section in place until I'm ready for it. It really does take no more than ten minutes total to take one down, or to put it back up.