Bad job coming

[Tom M King]

I have these two raised panel garage doors to refinish on a lake rental house. Just testing a couple of panels, it won't be too bad sanding down to bare wood, but someone had put another coat of marine varnish on the bottom two sections, so those are going to get some work with a heat gun before sanding. I think I can sand them in a day. They will be taken down by individual panels. I'll use supplied air, but it also looks like there will be a good wind coming off the lake for a few days, which should help.

I ordered a couple of gallons of EM8000. Since there is that much to spray, I'm going to use the airless rig.

I've never sprayed this finish before. My question is about tip size. My smallest orifice tips are FFLP __10, which are .010 orifice.

Is this stuff thin enough to require a smaller tip size? I can order a 308, which is the widest fan 6" that comes with the .008 orifice. I'm wondering if the .010 will be okay, or if I should spend the $43, and order the 308 tip.

The information about the finish says .008 to .010 for air assisted airless, but only says use a "fine" or "ultrafine" airless tips, which is pretty useless information. The FFLP airless sprays very similar to an AAA rig.

[Kevin Jenness]

Are you sure that is the best material for exterior use? Target's EM9300 seems to be better suited.

I would be researching 2k polys for that application.

[Tom M King]

Thanks, I'll check that out. I not only want it to last okay, like for a few years, but don't want it to be too hard to get off when they need to be redone.

[Tom M King]

I found some Very old gallon cans of Zspar Captains Varnish in that garage. I expect that might be what was put on them before some urethane got put on those bottom panels. The two panel faces you see that I sanded were very easy to sand. I'm going to have to work those bottom urethaned panels with a heat gun, and scraper. It will take Much longer to prepare one of those urethaned panels than the ten minutes it might take for one of the upper ones.

This house is right here where we live. It now adjoins all our other property, so it's not like it's off somewhere else. We will only rent it about 5 months out of the year, so upkeep can be done the rest of the year.

Ideally, what I'd like is something that will last a few years, and be easy to redo, rather than something that might last more years, but take more than one day to redo. I looked at the 9300, but don't really want to use a urethane. I might use that on the entry doors, which are Mahogany, and more protected than these garage doors, but they're probably good for this year's season.

I might just go back with Zspar Captains Varnish, which I do have experience with on boat parts. I haven't used the new water borne version since Petit bought the name.

[Kevin Jenness]

If you find an exterior finish that lasts a long time with no maintenance and is easily removed I hope you will share it.

For alkyd marine varnish, Epifanes is highly rated. Any varnish needs regular maintenance, depending on exposure. Scuff sanding and top-coating once a year will extend the coating life and put off the chore you are looking at.

You might want to look at Cetol exterior finishes. They are said to have effective uv blockers and to be relatively easily renewed.

[Tom M King]

I've used Epifanes, but don't want a high build finish. It's too much work for this much surface area to be completely redone.

I've used Cetol on docks, but don't like the way it looks when it fades.

It's important that it looks good through the season, every season, even if that means redoing it every year. Lasting a long time with no maintenance always involves a big job to redo it at the end, and looks deteriorate towards the end of life. We need it to look good through the season, and be easy to redo.

I've never used the EM8000, but it seems like it's worth a trial. If it doesn't work, I'll go with a thin coat of Captains Varnish.

The worst part about it this time is going to be getting that urethane off those bottom two panels. I don't want to have to do that again. The house is a very plain looking house anyway, and would be much worse without the wood garage doors, and entry doors. Otherwise, the easy thing would be to change them to something other than wood.

[Tom M King]

My question was about the airless tip. They give a viscosity scale that I'm not familiar with. What is the EM8000 similar to for spray requirements?

[John TenEyck]

Tom, I wouldn't use EM-8000CV for an outdoor application; it's only rated for interior applications. If you want a product that should be simple to remove, look at EM-2000; it's an alkyd system and rated for both interior and exterior door and window use. EM-9300 would likely be more durable, however. I wouldn't shy away from it because it has a urethane component. It will be a lot more durable than EM-8000.

Personally, I really like Cetol Door and Window finish. It will fade in 3 or 4 years, but it doesn't flake or crack, it sort of chalks off which makes it easy to refesh without added build up.

John

[Jim Becker]

I'll pile on...EM9300 is what you want. It's an exterior rated polyester product.

[Tom M King]

I'm going to want to sand whatever off before it starts to fade. The 2000 might work. I'll order some and try it. I want this to be a one day job. Sand them in the morning, and spray the first coat after lunch, second later that day, and set them in the garage until they are hard enough to put back up. If I can keep it to a one day job, it won't be so bad to do it every off season. More than one day will be too much of a chore.

It only takes maybe 10 minutes to take a garage door down. I may have to take time the first time to recess the bolts a little so I don't have to take them out every time for sanding, and they can hold the door up for drying.

They said the 8000 was for interior and exterior trim, so I thought it might be worth a try. I didn't see anywhere that said it was for interior only. I ordered it on Sunday, so didn't call, and talk to them. It's already been shipped.

More than one season of durability is not in the equation, because of the difficulty of removing it. I want to be able to sand a panel to bare wood in ten minutes. I just don't see doing that with a urethane.

What is this stuff equivalent to for spraying??? I need to know if I should order the smaller tip. We have a window of good weather here for the next several days. If I need to order something, I need to do it tomorrow.

I might even just get some spar varnish for this year, since I can get that locally. I can spray that with one of my 10 tips. They will be sprayed horizontally, so even if it comes out a little thick, I can just move the gun faster.

edited to add: Jim, how long will it take to get the 9300 off before it starts to deteriorate? I understand that it's hard for people to understand that maximum durability is not a factor for this. This is not like a house someone lives in all the time. It will be rented by the week, five months out of the year, and needs to look new every one of those weeks. These doors are not the reason anyone will rent this house, but will be the first thing anyone sees when they first drive up.

[Kevin Jenness]

Given your experience with various products, equipment, locally available material and schedule I think you should stick with Captain's Varnish. It's reliable and familiar and I very much doubt the Target 8000 will hold up as well outside. Both the 8000 and 9300 are quite hard and likely to be harder to sand off.

As far as spraying the 8000 all I can say is try to look up the viscosity of some products you are familiar with and compare that with the EM8000 product sheet. If the viscosity standards are different there are viscosity conversion charts available online. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[Tom M King]

That's actually pretty good Kevin. I think you're right about the Captains Varnish, especially since that's what is most likely on there now that's so easy to sand away. I hadn't realized it was available now in waterborne, until I looked at it yesterday. I haven't used any since Lasers had wooden daggerboards, and rudders, but remember it well.

I really didn't want to spray solvent through the airless rig, and have to move it to clean it. There is a good spot right there to do the spraying that I don't mind also doing the cleaning with water.

One attraction of the 8000 is that it dries fast, and I could put a couple of coats on in one afternoon.

Those doors face NE, and with protection from trees, not so close to the house, they get almost no Sun, and the wind never blows from that direction in the warm weather, plus a wide overhang.

If I can get it established that they can be sanded, it will be easy for me to get someone else to do this job, whereas if it required a heat gun, and scraper, the chances diminish significantly.

[Jim Becker]

Tom, all of the Target products can have multiple coats per day no problem. EM2000 has a slightly longer dry time because of being an emulsified alkyd product. The others...very reasonable dry time. But again, use one of the exterior rated products for your application...EM2000 or EM9300.

[Tom M King]

Just checked, and Captains Varnish is now a urethane, so that's out. Looking like the EM2000 is top of the list, right now.

Ease of sanding is the top priority, not durability. It needs to powder up when sanding. The old solvent based Captains Varnish did that. I've never used this conversion varnish, but the conversion varnishes I've done some repairing in the past all powdered up nicely when sanding. Urethane doesn't do that.

I think after this season, I may buy, or build, another pair to keep in rotation. I have building here I can store the extra in. The to-do list is too long right now though. https://www.etsy.com/listing/7584544...hoCj_4QAvD_BwE We have wedding planners wanting to rent it this season, starting in May.

[John TenEyck]

Tom, you are right. I looked further into the Tech Data Sheet on EM-8000 and TC does state that it can be used for interior AND exterior trim work. Sorry for the confusion. If you do use it I think you would want to leave out the crosslinker as that will make it harder, the opposite of what you want for an exterior application.

John