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Thread: Maksiwa - Cantek - Laguna Sliders

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Wyberanec View Post
    Hi Dan, Yes, I did actually see that thread. And I've actually seen those Zicar etc saws online and been intrigued myself. I might give the thread a full read again because it seems like there is a huge savings potential there, but I am not sure I have the stomach to go through it as I can't have my shop down for a long time as I'm doing it for a living. Thanks for bringing it up.
    Some how I missed the part where you were doing it for a living and couldn’t afford the down time, I would be looking at nothing less than a mid level saw new or a used higher end saw that is ready to go. The efficiency you are gona gain (if you learn how to use it properly) will have it paid for in no time.

  2. #17
    Kurt, my suggestion would be to get these off brands out of your head. Go Italian or Austrian or like Mark said, hold out for a clean used Euro machine. Griggio, Lazzari, Sicar, etc. are all fine but who you gonna' call when something breaks? What do they say about cars? "Cheap", "Fast", or "Reliable". Pick two because you can't have all three.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    1,242
    I have no experience with the brands you ask about, other than i see Cantek stuff at auction pretty often. Usually it is their 24" planer they made in the 90s into 2000s. Looks very similar to the Powermatic 201, which in turn looks like a copy of the Delta 22-470 planer. I remember posts over time commenting on this planer's performance and it being a reliable machine. For the life of me, i cannot remember someone posting about a Cantek slider. There is a small shop in boston that has a youtube channel doing residential remodels. Fairly mid to high level remodels. I am pretty sure the slider in their shop is a cantek. It looks like they produce good cabinet and finish carpentry work, but their equipment leaves a lot to be desired. They are probably on instagram or similar so you can message them about the machine.

    Another shop that i have more respect and admiration for is Goebel Furniture. A year or two ago they replaced the majority of the machines in their shop with an import brand ive never heard of before, maybe Ironwood? It was pretty big equipment--30" helical head planer, 16-20" jointer, 10-12' sliding table saw, and a SLR. From what i can tell, these guys have a good clientele and arent hurting for high end business. In addition, they have multiple old arn american machines, and i assume they know a quality machine and wouldnt buy junk. Still, unusual to see a shop like that NOT buy Martin/SCM.

    Like Mike says, i would be wary to venture out on your own to save a few bucks. I know i can rely on forums and a group of people to answer questions or troubleshoot a problem on a 20 year old SCM/Felder/Martin machine. The fact that no one knows anyone with a Cantek slider means you are more than likely on your own.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Winterville, NC (eastern NC)
    Posts
    2,360
    I have had a Laguna Pro short stroke model for over 10 years and love it. I don't have enough space in my shop for a longer sliding bed (16 X 32) but I am OK with that. No problems at all during that time; I did fabricate a metal frame to hold the overhead dust collection hose. I do not use the outrigger set-up very much, but it hangs on the wall and ready when needed. Mine has the scoring option which is also not used much unless I am sizing a lot of plywood for a project.
    There are other short stroke machines on the market such as SCM and Hammer. If I was getting one today I would take a serious look at the Hammer machines; I love my A3-41 jointer/planer.

  5. #20
    This just showed up today...

    https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auc..._term=20220208

    Ironwood slider...

    PK

  6. #21
    I recently went through the same decision agony late last year while in the market for a "hobbyist" single phase 10' slider having considered the same brands.

    Because I really hope to have this saw for a 20+ years I wound up ordering a Minimax 315es. I didn't feel confident having support that far out, even with Laguna. They might discontinue selling those saws at some point; easy enough for them because it's just a rebadged import.

    (and a data point for others out there.. I ordered 11/16, and the current ETA is 2/28 for delivery to port. oof)

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul J Kelly View Post
    This just showed up today...

    https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auc..._term=20220208

    Ironwood slider...

    PK
    I saw that auction. Something tells me there is a sad story behind a bunch of 2020 machines getting auctioned off. The sander is very interesting, but sadly far far too big and power hungry for me space.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
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    Central CT
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    164
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul J Kelly View Post
    This just showed up today...

    https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auc..._term=20220208

    Ironwood slider...

    PK
    They seem pretty good and so far that's a good deal but I would bet it goes up quite a bit. I can't say for sure but I think they are all 3 phase though and I want to try to stick to single....that said it is crazy how you have to have everything ready to take it the next day....

  9. #24
    Join Date
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,688
    Auctions are kinda like that...they want the cash immediately and they want the thang you bought gone lickety-split, too...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #25
    I have been following your threads and think you’re looking for a unicorn that doesn’t really exist. I would buy a used Phase Perfect and the look for the nicest used Italian, German and Austrian 8.5’ + slider I could find close enough by that was under a goal of ~$8k and call it done - or save longer and wait until you can find a quality used Euro slider.

    You get what you pay for and I personally think you’re barking up the wrong tree with expectations of off brand Asian sliders being reliable and precise over the long term.
    Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 02-08-2022 at 10:11 PM.
    Still waters run deep.

  11. #26
    Hello Ryan, I have been following your threads with interest. I too was in the market for a slider recently. A bit of history first. I was a professional cabinetmaker and then Furnituremaker for 26 years. I changed careers 20 years ago and am now approaching retirement and working on setting up a shop again. I have owned 2 short stroke sliders in the past a Griggio and then an EMA KS 1600. My current 864 sq ft garage shop does not have 3 phase power so I stated looking to see if I could find a good accurate slider with a single phase motor. My budget was $6-$10k. The Laguna 12/5 peaked my interest but after 2 emails and 2 phone calls to customer service with no reply I gave up on Laguna. I was trying to find out if the saw is Dado capable which is essential for me. I then started looking at Minimax, Felder / Hammer and Altendorf. The Hammer K3 Winner started to look interesting at around $6k. I was also getting info on the Altendorf WA6 which I later found out is not Dado capable so that pursuit ended. If running a dado or groover is not import to you they might be a good choice. Cantek and Maksiwa both make what looks like good sliders but I could not find anything good or bad from owners/ users online. Felder and Minimax both have online Groups.io chats which I find a big plus for those brands. I have a woodworker friend that recently upgraded to a Minimax SC 3C. It is a very nice machine that my friend is very happy with. He bought it from Elite Metal Tools which took his old slider in trade. He is very happy with his experience with Elite. The SC 3C is quite a bit lighter than the Italian saws I had used before. I think the Hammer and Minimax lines are probably quite similar. I was having good correspondence with Elite and I like that they publish prices are on their website. I found out about Sam Blasco and had correspondence with him regarding Minimax machines. If you are shopping Minimax I highly recommend talking to Sam. Having a knowledgeable person to talk to makes it much more comfortable dropping thousands and thousands of dollars on something never seen or touched. Speaking with Sam gave me the confidence to purchase a Minimax FS30cx jointer /planer. During my research the Minimax SC 3C and SC 2C saws did not quite answer my wants needs. Minimax does make and sell a lot of equipment for good reason and maybe one of these saws could answer your needs. They have a variety of models and price points for most peoples needs and have dealers all over the country. My journey began to take me back me to Felder/ Hammer. They are offered in a number of variations and quite a number of accessories are also available. I was talking to Elizabeth Rogers at Felder Sacramento. (1 866-792-5288 ext. 209) and I cannot say enough good things about her. She is extremely knowledgeable about the whole Felder/ Hammer line and all the variations. Emails and phone messages are answered either immediately or within a couple hours. Talking on the phone with her she is quick to point out the positives but also tell you if something about a machine may not meet one’s high expectations. She put me in touch with a woodworker about 40 miles from me that has a number of Felder machines. I did visit this guy and got to lay my hands on a Felder slider and was happy with what I saw and the owner had nothing but good things to say about his equipment. He also dealt with Elizabeth and raved about her like I am now. I learned of Erik Loza on this forum (but have not spoken to him yet) which may be another source of info on the Felder products. After a lot of analysis, I ended up ordering a Felder K500P. This saw is a $2k step up in price over the Hammer K3 Winner and uses the X Roll sliding table common to all the upper end Felder saws. Felder has been making the X Roll system since the mid 70’s and having a 10 year warranty on the slider is unprecedented. One downside to the particular saw I ordered is that it is not a model that is imported for dealer inventory. To the best of my knowledge the Hammer saws and the K700’s are imported for stock in the US. The 500 series Felders are kind of tweeners, in between the $6-$7k Hammer line and the $12-$35k Felder and $+$+ Format lines. The K500P is custom made to order, being such, I will not see my saw till later in the year. For me a well made and finely tuned short stroke slider is a real joy to use. Yes all good sliders can be very good for dimensioning solid wood and panels. For me a slider has always been a fantastic joinery tool. Jigs and fixtures to cut finger joints, tenons, miters with and without splines, cuts on curved and compound curved parts…. the list goes on. If you can figure a way to hold a part (of any shape) on the slider, presenting that part to the sawblade, dado or groover makes for a very versatile tool and can bring great results to your projects. I think a good quality accurate slider would bring a great level of precision and open many new possibilities to your speaker cabinet and furniture projects. Apologies for the long-winded reply and best of luck in your search.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alberta
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    2,162
    Excellent first post frank. Thanks for joining us here at SMC.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Central CT
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    164
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Nadell View Post
    Hello Ryan, I have been following your threads with interest. I too was in the market for a slider recently. A bit of history first. I was a professional cabinetmaker and then Furnituremaker for 26 years. I changed careers 20 years ago and am now approaching retirement and working on setting up a shop again. I have owned 2 short stroke sliders in the past a Griggio and then an EMA KS 1600. My current 864 sq ft garage shop does not have 3 phase power so I stated looking to see if I could find a good accurate slider with a single phase motor. My budget was $6-$10k. The Laguna 12/5 peaked my interest but after 2 emails and 2 phone calls to customer service with no reply I gave up on Laguna. I was trying to find out if the saw is Dado capable which is essential for me. I then started looking at Minimax, Felder / Hammer and Altendorf. The Hammer K3 Winner started to look interesting at around $6k. I was also getting info on the Altendorf WA6 which I later found out is not Dado capable so that pursuit ended. If running a dado or groover is not import to you they might be a good choice. Cantek and Maksiwa both make what looks like good sliders but I could not find anything good or bad from owners/ users online. Felder and Minimax both have online Groups.io chats which I find a big plus for those brands. I have a woodworker friend that recently upgraded to a Minimax SC 3C. It is a very nice machine that my friend is very happy with. He bought it from Elite Metal Tools which took his old slider in trade. He is very happy with his experience with Elite. The SC 3C is quite a bit lighter than the Italian saws I had used before. I think the Hammer and Minimax lines are probably quite similar. I was having good correspondence with Elite and I like that they publish prices are on their website. I found out about Sam Blasco and had correspondence with him regarding Minimax machines. If you are shopping Minimax I highly recommend talking to Sam. Having a knowledgeable person to talk to makes it much more comfortable dropping thousands and thousands of dollars on something never seen or touched. Speaking with Sam gave me the confidence to purchase a Minimax FS30cx jointer /planer. During my research the Minimax SC 3C and SC 2C saws did not quite answer my wants needs. Minimax does make and sell a lot of equipment for good reason and maybe one of these saws could answer your needs. They have a variety of models and price points for most peoples needs and have dealers all over the country. My journey began to take me back me to Felder/ Hammer. They are offered in a number of variations and quite a number of accessories are also available. I was talking to Elizabeth Rogers at Felder Sacramento. (1 866-792-5288 ext. 209) and I cannot say enough good things about her. She is extremely knowledgeable about the whole Felder/ Hammer line and all the variations. Emails and phone messages are answered either immediately or within a couple hours. Talking on the phone with her she is quick to point out the positives but also tell you if something about a machine may not meet one’s high expectations. She put me in touch with a woodworker about 40 miles from me that has a number of Felder machines. I did visit this guy and got to lay my hands on a Felder slider and was happy with what I saw and the owner had nothing but good things to say about his equipment. He also dealt with Elizabeth and raved about her like I am now. I learned of Erik Loza on this forum (but have not spoken to him yet) which may be another source of info on the Felder products. After a lot of analysis, I ended up ordering a Felder K500P. This saw is a $2k step up in price over the Hammer K3 Winner and uses the X Roll sliding table common to all the upper end Felder saws. Felder has been making the X Roll system since the mid 70’s and having a 10 year warranty on the slider is unprecedented. One downside to the particular saw I ordered is that it is not a model that is imported for dealer inventory. To the best of my knowledge the Hammer saws and the K700’s are imported for stock in the US. The 500 series Felders are kind of tweeners, in between the $6-$7k Hammer line and the $12-$35k Felder and $+$+ Format lines. The K500P is custom made to order, being such, I will not see my saw till later in the year. For me a well made and finely tuned short stroke slider is a real joy to use. Yes all good sliders can be very good for dimensioning solid wood and panels. For me a slider has always been a fantastic joinery tool. Jigs and fixtures to cut finger joints, tenons, miters with and without splines, cuts on curved and compound curved parts…. the list goes on. If you can figure a way to hold a part (of any shape) on the slider, presenting that part to the sawblade, dado or groover makes for a very versatile tool and can bring great results to your projects. I think a good quality accurate slider would bring a great level of precision and open many new possibilities to your speaker cabinet and furniture projects. Apologies for the long-winded reply and best of luck in your search.
    Frank Thanks very much for the great post. This is the exact type of info I have been searching for in people's experiences. I have another post up about buying a slider and all of the machines you mentioned are in that as well. I started this particular post in regard to some of the other imports just to narrow down some material.

    I too think that the Maksiwa stuff looks very promising, but cannot find much usable info. I am going to contact a dealer and see if they can possibly steer me to a user or machine I can actually see before writing them off. Particularly interested in their Titanium model as at $9500 it seems like a well built machine that actually has DROs on it and that is several $k less than the other guys for that.

    The Laguna stuff also seems to present a nice amount of options on what seems like a good machine but their price point is such that it makes it hard to choose them over the Felder/SCM lines....

    SCM I can at least find pricing as you mentioned and I'm glad to hear your experience with Elite...I might reach out to them to get a dialog going as well as Sam, I've heard he is a great resource.

    Hammer/Felder is still where my "new" inclination heads but I know I'm going to pay for it, and my experience in getting pricing and info has been difficult and this would be my 3rd purchase from them. I might try the rep you mentioned. My previous rep is no longer with the company but was fantastic to deal with. I'm very curious to know (if you would like to disclose or could shoot me a pm) what ended up being your price for the 500p you ordered and how did you get it outfitted? I'm not looking to price shop with them but just really want to get an idea what an equipped machine comes out as. I've heard numbers all over the place from folks and reps and likewise can't narrow in on it. From Felder Group, I've been considering a host of machines really...but it all depends on what price makes the most sense. And out of curiosity what made you go for the P vs the S or 540S??

    As for the Altendorf WA-6, Dado's are not a big deal for me (at least not right now) so it is definitely in consideration. My first BIG question is do you know if this machine is available in the US???? Because I can't find anywhere that actually seems to suggest so.... 2nd their machine is made in China, and I'm curious if anyone knows which factory is doing it because it would seem there are quite a few of the Chinese import brands that I using the name Altendorf in their descriptions and they look virtually identical to the machine pics....in other words they might be the exact same machine without the branding and at a fraction of the price. This may completely not be the case, but it strikes me as a possibility as it is common practice in China and apparently very easy for them to get away with. Thoughts????

    Thanks again for the great info!

  14. #29
    The factory building the wa’s is Altendorfs which is why I said I would possibly consider them. I will tell you the company I work at has 2 factories in China that were setup by us and run by us and we have customers in China that actually insist on buying the product from The factory in Vermont and shipped to China instead of the same thing they can get in China. I can also tell you that we now only have our simplest configurations made there for a reason…

    btw, the wa’s are out of your price range new so scratch it off your list.
    Last edited by Mark e Kessler; 02-09-2022 at 3:31 PM.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Wyberanec View Post
    As for the Altendorf WA-6, …
    I have talked to 2 different Stiles Reps now. They certainly seem to sell Altendorf in the USA, and in fact they seem to be the only rep for Altendorf that I can find in USA. ...But something is not right, IMHO. Both Reps immediately pushed me toward the Ironwood line of saws that they referenced as ‘theirs’. Ironwood prices seem every bit the equal Felder, and almost to Martin. I explained I knew nothing about the Ironwoods, nor could I find any credible reviews of them, so I would like pricing on the WA series - - which IS boldly shown on Stiles’ website. Last response was that they would ‘have to see if they could quote that’. They would also pull together info/quote on comparable Ironwood. That was 5 days ago, and radio silence since.

    No clue if this is supply chain issue (none to sell = rep apathy), market exclusion (no WAs allowed in US), or simple profit motive (>$ on Ironwood)? Whatever the cause, it looks more and more like there is no German saw in my future. (I ruled out Felder/Hammer on trusted advice, not price or sales effort.)

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