Buying a Slider....opinions/help

[Dave Roock]

Hello All ! Just a FYI warning regarding Craigslist - criminals across the USA are using it to mostly gain your phone number and/or email address. The SCMI Sliding Table Saw Craigslist link posted above is a perfect example. Shows "Pensacola" but is on Atlanta Craigslist. These scam listings never have phone number, never have address or legit email. Targeting is typically on higher end items, like a SCMI saw. I realized this over time, while looking at Craigslist listings for Bobcat equipment & trucks. Reasoning of criminals is that if you have enough $ to buy a $7,000 -50,000 item, you have $ that can be swindled. If you get endless fake phone calls, fake emails & texts, they may all come from a fake Craigslist listing you replied to. Pricing on these fake listings ( by the more intelligent criminals) are typically not too low but are a very good deal that gets your notice. Good luck to all in your searches, if it is leaning towards "too good to be true" , then it probably is fake.

[Malcolm McLeod]

No hands-on, but on the same road, so to speak…

I can’t find price on the WA 6 either, and can’t get Stiles to call back (I uttered the H-word in first call ….yes, Hisssss-obbyist!). But, I found a Machinio French listing for new WA 8 TE (fixed crosscut fence) at $15,213. This makes me think the WA 6 (new) may be in the range of $8-10K??? Reinforced by 2008 WA 6 for $5600, also in France.

[Mo Ghotbi]

I have been very happy with my Hammer K3 Winner with the 78 inch stroke. Have built a bunch of cabinets and casework as a hobbyist and DIYer. If I had one complaint it would be the location of the on/off switch.

[Patrick Kane]

Gotcha, I misunderstood the guitar bit initially. Sadly, I am not musically inclined nor do I have much interest. A slider will kill at making those cases. Also, looks like you are in new england? You might be surprised at shipping costs. It was $500-600 to move the Martin from Texas to Pennsylvania.

Here is another one for you. New on pallet 2008 Felder k700s with 10Â’ table, digi elevation controls, and scoring saw. It looked like it was in upstate NY. They had it listed around $9k, I think.

[Kendall Scheier]

Kyle,

I completely empathize with your situation. I was in your exact spot 2 years ago. I wanted to buy a used machine and looked for 9 months but couldnÂ’t find any sliders under 10Â’ locally. For the machines I could find across the country; after taking into account the condition, rigging and shipping fees plus a phase converter made the total price of the machine too close to a brand new machine to be appealing. I tried to investigate the Felder options but quickly stopped receiving responses from their rep. I had all of my questions answered by both Sam Blasco and the local dealer Sam hooked me up with so after 9 months of looking I ordered a new SC4E.

The SC4E should be in your budget (or at least it was pre-covid). I paid $7470 total for my machine. I picked my saw up in LA but was quoted an even 8k if I wanted it delivered to AZ; 8300 if I wanted residential delivery with a lift gate. I know pricing has gone up since covid but I sure hope it has not gone up 25% or more that would make it 10k. Sam Blasco can send you a pricing list or the closest dealer they have near you can get you an exact quote easily. I was not dismissed when saying I was a hobbyist. Another thing to consider is that SCM typically offers discounts during the AWFS and IFS shows every year.

My SC4E has a 4.8 HP motor, enough carriage length to rip a full 8Â’ long sheet with space for the fence and a clamp on both ends, a scoring blade, dado capable, single phaseÂ… Mine did not come with an over arm dust guard nor DRO on the fences or blade tilt/height but I believe they are all options. Your dealer/Sam can confirm or correct this. In place of the DRO I use Incra fences on my fritz and FranÂ’s jig for the accuracy and repeatability that you also desire and are used to having. I also plan on making a parallel positioner or rip jig using an Incra LS positioner like Sam Blasco made with his Jointech positioner (which you can see on his youtube videos). My saw does not have the controls by the handle which would be very very convenient; it is the only real benefit I saw when comparing Felder to SCM. Pretty much everything else seems pretty equal.

I am in a 400sqft 2 car garage and my saw takes up a lot of the real estate but I feel it is totally worth it when considering the accuracy, repeatability and safety of this saw. I love it.

Your concern with cutting small/thin pieces should not be an issue. The fritz and FranÂ’s jig make cutting small pieces or small adjustments a snap and way safer than on a cabinet saw.

I would advise to only consider the 8.5Â’ + sized machines as the short stroke sliders may not hold up to your commercial shop. There was a recent thread on here where one guy was lamenting about how many unreliability issues his shop had with a certain Felder machine and Erik Loza commented saying that particular saw was not designed for that much use and he advised that the SC4E or the Felder equivalent (sorry, I get mixed up with all of the Felder numbersÂ…) should have been the minimum appropriate level of machine. Maybe you are already familiar with that thread since you have been doing a lot of reading on the subject.

I tried to answer all of your concerns but if I missed something please reach out to me. I am happy to help as much as I can. If you are in AZ feel free
to stop by and gets some hand on time with my machine.

Good luck with your decision!

[Jim Becker]

So I guess the real question then becomes what's the big difference between the 2 and the 3 for the short strokes?

The SC3C is a beefier machine and has an intermediate stroke length (5'5") on the slider. The SC2C has the same stroke and is a more base level machine. One of the big advantages to the SC3C between the two is that in the standard package, the SC3C comes with a lot of desirable accessories that cost extra on the SC2C. The bundling can be valuable...the same is true with Hammer; bundles can save you money. You can get current specs and pricing form Sam Blasco sam.blasco@scmgroup.com for the SCM/Minimax machines

I'm likely going with the SC3C when I have a new shop building up. It's shorter stroke than the S315WS (older 8'8" version) I had in the old shop but fits my budget and will cover my actual, real needs. For you, if you go SCM/Minimax and based on your comments, SC3C or SC4C would be good choices and both should be within or very close to your budget...and both have the bundled accessories that don't need to be bought after the fact.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

No hands-on, but on the same road, so to speak…

I can’t find price on the WA 6 either, and can’t get Stiles to call back (I uttered the H-word in first call ….yes, Hisssss-obbyist!). But, I found a Machinio French listing for new WA 8 TE (fixed crosscut fence) at $15,213. This makes me think the WA 6 (new) may be in the range of $8-10K??? Reinforced by 2008 WA 6 for $5600, also in France.

I had found a new WA-6 listed on a Euro site for something like $6500 pounds which is about $8800....now I have no idea if that is what it would sell for in the states or if it is even available and when. If it is and that's the approx. price then I would say it looks like a good value based on the brand, but it is Chinese from what I understand and I do have concern about that.

Does anyone have a newish WA-6 on here?????

[Kurt Wyberanec]

The SC3C is a beefier machine and has an intermediate stroke length (5'5") on the slider. The SC2C has the same stroke and is a more base level machine. One of the big advantages to the SC3C between the two is that in the standard package, the SC3C comes with a lot of desirable accessories that cost extra on the SC2C. The bundling can be valuable...the same is true with Hammer; bundles can save you money. You can get current specs and pricing form Sam Blasco sam.blasco@scmgroup.com for the SCM/Minimax machines

I'm likely going with the SC3C when I have a new shop building up. It's shorter stroke than the S315WS (older 8'8" version) I had in the old shop but fits my budget and will cover my actual, real needs. For you, if you go SCM/Minimax and based on your comments, SC3C or SC4C would be good choices and both should be within or very close to your budget...and both have the bundled accessories that don't need to be bought after the fact.

Hi Jim, do you have any idea what those included accessories are? Curious because they really don't seem to include those differences on the site?

There's a significant difference in the price the 2 seems to be listed around for 6k (no idea what comes with any of these prices) the 3 for about 8k and I've even seen the 4 for as little as 8600.

Also do you know if any of those can be ordered with the better overarm guard like the nova etc.?
Thanks for Sam's email, I will reach out for some info.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Kyle,

I completely empathize with your situation. I was in your exact spot 2 years ago. I wanted to buy a used machine and looked for 9 months but couldnÂ’t find any sliders under 10Â’ locally. For the machines I could find across the country; after taking into account the condition, rigging and shipping fees plus a phase converter made the total price of the machine too close to a brand new machine to be appealing. I tried to investigate the Felder options but quickly stopped receiving responses from their rep. I had all of my questions answered by both Sam Blasco and the local dealer Sam hooked me up with so after 9 months of looking I ordered a new SC4E.

The SC4E should be in your budget (or at least it was pre-covid). I paid $7470 total for my machine. I picked my saw up in LA but was quoted an even 8k if I wanted it delivered to AZ; 8300 if I wanted residential delivery with a lift gate. I know pricing has gone up since covid but I sure hope it has not gone up 25% or more that would make it 10k. Sam Blasco can send you a pricing list or the closest dealer they have near you can get you an exact quote easily. I was not dismissed when saying I was a hobbyist. Another thing to consider is that SCM typically offers discounts during the AWFS and IFS shows every year.

My SC4E has a 4.8 HP motor, enough carriage length to rip a full 8Â’ long sheet with space for the fence and a clamp on both ends, a scoring blade, dado capable, single phaseÂ… Mine did not come with an over arm dust guard nor DRO on the fences or blade tilt/height but I believe they are all options. Your dealer/Sam can confirm or correct this. In place of the DRO I use Incra fences on my fritz and FranÂ’s jig for the accuracy and repeatability that you also desire and are used to having. I also plan on making a parallel positioner or rip jig using an Incra LS positioner like Sam Blasco made with his Jointech positioner (which you can see on his youtube videos). My saw does not have the controls by the handle which would be very very convenient; it is the only real benefit I saw when comparing Felder to SCM. Pretty much everything else seems pretty equal.

I am in a 400sqft 2 car garage and my saw takes up a lot of the real estate but I feel it is totally worth it when considering the accuracy, repeatability and safety of this saw. I love it.

Your concern with cutting small/thin pieces should not be an issue. The fritz and FranÂ’s jig make cutting small pieces or small adjustments a snap and way safer than on a cabinet saw.

I would advise to only consider the 8.5Â’ + sized machines as the short stroke sliders may not hold up to your commercial shop. There was a recent thread on here where one guy was lamenting about how many unreliability issues his shop had with a certain Felder machine and Erik Loza commented saying that particular saw was not designed for that much use and he advised that the SC4E or the Felder equivalent (sorry, I get mixed up with all of the Felder numbersÂ…) should have been the minimum appropriate level of machine. Maybe you are already familiar with that thread since you have been doing a lot of reading on the subject.

I tried to answer all of your concerns but if I missed something please reach out to me. I am happy to help as much as I can. If you are in AZ feel free
to stop by and gets some hand on time with my machine.

Good luck with your decision!

Thanks very much for all, the exact kind of experiences I'm looking to hear.

Have you found any issues that you'd like different about your SC4E? It's definitely one on my radar and did you do any comparison shopping to other brands?

Thanks.

[Jim Becker]

Hi Jim, do you have any idea what those included accessories are? Curious because they really don't seem to include those differences on the site?

Please clarify with Sam what the current packages contain, but the SC3C package I'm familiar with includes the separate miter bar (which I use 90% of the time), the additional small support table, heavier trunnions, dado capability, angle presets on the outrigger, more horsepower, beefier outrigger support, etc.

We've had conversations about better overhead guard/collection here, some even recently, and for both SCM/Minimax and the Hammer machines, it's a heck of a lot more cost effective to go with a third party overarm solution, such as the SharkGuard, Grizzly, Excalibur (however that's available these days), etc., as they all come in at about $500 and the OEM upgrades not only have to be special ordered, they cost an arm, a leg and probably some other body parts to purchase for the SC3C and K3 level machines.

[Mark e Kessler]

If you want an industrial level saw and and your budget is under 10k then you need to be looking at used.
Also 3p you will have a lot more choices used for less money, 3p converter try to stick with a Phase Perfect you will be better off in the long run over rotary.

The green scmi’s from the 90’s are pretty rock solid and inexpensive, I had one and worked in several shops with them but can’t remember the models right not cuz it’s been 25+ years (si16 maybe?). Used altendorf’s can be had but be careful common for used ones to come out of big shops whre they were run hard, an asset tag on one would be a clue, watch out for phenolic ways some times they have been replaced, look for short stroke wear on those also

I would stay away from to much electronics on an older machine unless its been replaced lately, all electronics will fail at some point, some of the older stuff was custom designed in house non standard components so will be potentially hard to find and very expensive, newer electronics can expensive as well but a lot of it is more standard in the industry like a circuit board used across many types of things

if going new
Hammer, k500 share the same saw unit
k700s is in your crosshairs price wise without dro and is a bit above build than the hammer,k500
the overhead guard is excellent as far as guards go pretty much all the dust is captured as long as its not an edge cut
The standard motor option is more than enough unless you plan on cutting wet railroad ties
do not get a saw with the scoring powered off the main blade, you want a separate scoring motor.
I have owned this saw and it is an ok entry level saw although if i was starting a business again buying a new machine it would be the k940, owning both I can tell you it is night and day.

The non dro are surprisingly accurate but DRO is definitely worth it and a few years ago it would have been hard to convince me otherwise, you can do aftermarket but factory option is better and worth it in my opinion, it’s cleaner better integrated into the machine. It would have also been hard to convince me to go electronic, I honestly like to use the handles but again it’s nice to beable to go back to a measurement previously use and it be the same.

I just did a little test on this on my IG feed, look up kessler_woodworks…

I mostly now work in hardwoods with limited ply, sounds like 8.5 - 9ft would work for you, it is true go as long as you can but unless you are doing a lot of commercial, residential work you can get away without it. 8.5 seems a little tight with clamping in front and back, I have 9 and its tight for an 8’, 9’ clears the blade on an 8’ cut not sure if 8.5 does

Can’t speak for the newer scm’s my experience was in the 90’s with them and they were everywhere it was the brand to get - i had the saw 24” planer (s63b?) a j/p - the green era was a good era… I have been told by friends still in shops that the Nova class is somewhat lightweight but we are talking about large architectural mill shops so who knows what that means

[Warren Lake]

There was SI320 and a Hydro 3200 and think SI-16N. Usually 9 HP 5 plus inches cutting with a 16" blade. Think the manual said 14" blade if scoring but that might have been the smaller ones. Prices usually 2,500.00k - 3k plus Canadian.

[Kendall Scheier]

Kurt, the only thing that bugs me is not having the controls on the handle or somewhere above the table. It’s not that big of an inconvenience honestly; I’m 99% pleased with my machine. I definitely don’t regret buying it. A few guys have retrofitted controls (and documented the process) on the back end of their sliders so if you’re so inclined that is a possibility.

As far as things I would like different; of course DRO would be great to have but it wasn’t in my budget. And my incra Fritz and Frans really does satisfy my needs/wants, I think it is a very serviceable alternative. Look into lamb tool works (lambtoolworks.com), he makes very high quality accessories for many brands of sliders including DRO’s and parallel guides. I would also like to have Mac’s airtight clamps but they are almost half of what I paid for my saw so I’m having a hard time justifying it. I do think about them when I have to walk around a big sheet of plywood to release the clamp at the head of the slider… it’s a pretty minor inconvenience but if I was making a living at this and cutting all day the back and forth would be enough to hamper productivity I believe. For me as a hobbyist it will likely be something on my wish list that I may never get to.

I did not do any in-person comparisons of any machines; I don’t know of any Felder or other manufacturer reps in my area. Even my local SCM rep didn’t have this machine in a showroom or anything so all of my research was online. Like I said, I was dismissed very quickly by the Felder rep so I didn’t get very far that route (I’m not going to beg someone to take my money lol). Plus Felder doesn’t seem to do standard packages so getting a general price on a machine is difficult just because they have a million options to choose from. Pros and cons to that model for sure.

In general the only two manufacturers on my list were Felder and SCM unless I could find a used altendorf or Martin… but they never came up locally.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Mike Kees]

Kurt, I currently own a Felder k700s sliding saw. Previously owned a minimax SC2. The minimax was an excellent saw ,built simple and stout ,with eveything that mattered adjustable. It was an 80's version that I purchased from a friend that needed work. He is not patient, I am, as well mechanical ability played a role in reviving this machine. Italians build stuff with basic designs and heavy. I would recommend a new one as it has been improved with a few more features from the one I had. The Felder is well built "underneath the hood" ,trunnions are solid . The rest of the machine has more of a refined look than Minimax's all business look/feel. The slider is smoooooth. Holds it settings well. Felder also get my vote as recommended. You asked about Cantek as well. I own a planer from them it is a well made and capable basic machine that I really like. Talked to a rep about their sliders, but my only hands on experience was a used one. The SCM dealer in Calgary had one there that needed a couple parts that he had ordered and been waiting for for over a year. This was pre Covid. Cantek are made in Taiwan.

[Mick Simon]

Kurt,
I have had a very similar experience as Kendall. I ordered the SC4E about 18 months ago. At the time it was $8400 delivered to NM, similarly outfitted to Kendall's. The one exception that I noticed is mine has an analog digital gauge for the tilt angle. I also agree with the assessment of what needs to be offered as an option. When cutting sheet goods, the Start/Stop controls are not conveniently located. I would be happy to pay more for a secondary set on the carriage a la Felder.
I ordered mine with residential lift gate service, paid extra for it and was then advised that it was too big for a lift gate once delivery was lined up. Elite refused to refund the lift gate charges and I wound up renting a trailer and driving to Albuquerque to pick it up from the FedEx Freight depot. Live and learn.
I'm very happy with the saw and would buy it again.