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If you go the MFT route, one thing to investigate (as an alternative to buying a quality jig), is whether there is someone nearby who could whip one out on a CNC. If you only need it done once, may be cheaper than buying the jig. My local makerspace has one, and I know that they will frequently do one-off requests for people that aren't members at pretty reasonable prices.
[OP]
Contributor
Well, I do have a large radial arm saw, but it's a shop decoration at the moment. It needs work and I'm not actually sure I want to keep it. I looked at the TSO product and that looks really nice and would solve my problem. Unfortunately I don't think it will work with my track saw system (I have a vintage EZ-Smart system with a proprietary track). I have been thinking about upgrading my track saw to a Makita, and this may be the impetus to do just that. It will solve a lot of problems. Right now my max depth of cut is only about 1-3/8" and that is often a problem for me.Originally Posted by Michael Fink
Glad I'm not the only one fighting this battle.Working on a set of cabinets that's almost 90in high X 20in deep. Did a lot of staring at it wondering how to make an accurate/clean crosscuts on the 96X20 sheets I had after ripping them on the table saw.
I finally threw up my hands and spent some money. I do enough of these big cabinets (as a hobby, not a profession) that I felt it warranted to spend some money (more tools, more better, right?). I got the TPG Parallel guide system for my Makita track saw, and that does appear to be the answer for my needs. It's absolutely dead on accurate/solid (assuming, of course, that you set it up right!). It also killed two birds for me, after cutting the 90x20 sections of plywood, I then needed to dado them to take shelves. Running that through my table saw sounded "not fun" but with the track and parallel guides, I can just run my router along the track using a guide. Nice and easy, and, because of the TPG system, also, perfectly parallel cuts (I ganged the two sides and routed in one go).
The other option that I've looked at and considered over and over, but simply cannot justify, is a radial arm saw. The Original Saw company; looks like a beautiful piece of equipment, 24in cross cut AND dado blade capacity would work for just about any use I have where I need an accurate cross cut or dado placement. But ~6K delivered, plus the space required? And getting rid of my miter saw/miter saw station would hurt too (no need for both of them).
The Festool MFT system is just out of my budget right now.
You guys have given me a lot of options, from cheap to expensive, I just need to figure out what level of accuracy I'm willing to accept and how much I'm willing to pay for it.
Jon Endres
Killing Trees Since 1983
If you don't do a lot of Kitchen-n-Bath you may not be setup for large panels. This is me also. I made a purpose specific sled that would fit the largest panel of a project at that time. I figured it would go after the project was done. It is still in service years later.
Here it is way back when.
Shop Tour 2011-10-19 (19).jpg
And hanging behind the TS operator area today.
New Shop (520).jpg
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Contributor
I have the EZ Smart system and a Makita track saw. I got accurate cuts for years with my EZ-Smart, but it took time (and accurate measurements) to get things square, even with the EZ-Smart square. I do have the TSO parallel guide system for the Makita, and it is a much better system than the old EZ Smart square and cabinet repeaters, but not cheap.
The things I like about the Makita is the ability to make long bevel cuts with the track saw without cutting into the anti-chip strip, the ability to plunge cut and accurately control depth of cut, and the built-in dust collection. The rails for the Makita (and others like it) are more finicky to connect together and get straight than the EZ-Smart were, and I never worried about bending the EZ-Smart rails whereas I have already bent one of my makita rails.
If I had an MFT system, I might use my track saw for more things, but in many cases, it is faster, and just as, if not more accurate to use the tablesaw and a crosscut sled. But there are times when the track saw is the best choice. Last week I had to cut multiple 7' long bevels in an expensive piece of cherry plywood to miterfold some columns. Due to my skills (or lack of) and table saw setup I would never have been confident in making 16 of those 7' cuts accurately enough on the tablesaw for the miterfolds to look perfect. With the track saw it was no problem at all.
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Member
I did my first cabinet with my new TS55 and got it square on the first try, which for me is amazing to get it square on any tries.
I cut a square template of the length I wanted and used that to lay out the track. For example, one of the templates was 24x4. I just moved it along the track until it was square. I think that was the measurement, it has to be what you want minus the width of the track.
There are add ons for the tracks that will square it for you, but I haven’t bought those yet.
I learned a long time ago that you can replace skill with tricks and good tools. Templates aren’t tricks, using them when you know you need to despite being lazy is the trick.
Contributor
A down-side to my panel saw and my Skilsaw and rail rigs is the run-out (blade wobble) that hand held type circular saws have due to the short shaft and gear configuration. If you can use your good table saw or other heavy duty saw the results will be better. My shop is too small and multi purpose for a table saw rig that will accommodate full sheets.
Member
Depending on how many cuts I need to make I use one of two methods, both involving my DeWalt track saw. For a few cuts, I use an Anderson plywood square that I have modified to have a small removable fence like a speed square. I just draw a .5mm line at right angle to the edge and put the track on the line. The anderson square is 18 inches so not full size for a 24 inch crosscut but it is wide enough for me.
If I have a bunch of crosscuts to make, I set up a fence on my outfeed/assembly/tracksaw cutting table. It has 20 mm holes for dogs and other things. Once set up, this is faster and more accurate. But for a few cuts, I don't bother to set it up. The fence is not a Festool configuration, it is based upon a Ron Paulk design.
Member
I made a large crosscut box very similar to Glen's back in the day. Used it for about 20 years. Now my solution is a Felder k700s . There were two other steps in between as well. The great thing about woodworking is there is always a "way" to accomplish something that needs doing. I use my stuff to make a living so have purchased some "solutions" that would not be in my life if this was strictly a hobby. Crosscut box is the cheapest solution. A track saw is a tool that is very useful for way more than just breaking down sheet goods. Either one would help you out.
Member
I have to say, a track saw must be up there with one of the most useful tools, at least if this is your hobby and not your profession. A track saw is slow to setup and cut compared to a table saw. But man, the versatility! A few different types of jigs, or something like an MFT and there's not much you can't do with a TS. A lot of cuts a cabinet saw can make easier/faster, no question, but there are also a lot of cuts that are incredibly difficult or dangerous on anything smaller than a full cabinet saw (and even then, difficult without a slider; splitting a sheet of plywood down to two 4x4 sheets is hard even with a massive table saw if you don't have a massive sliding table with it).
I really do see a track saw as probably the top of the list if you want to get into woodworking in your 1 or 2 car garage. Couple that track saw with a track guided router, and you're able to do a lot of common joinery that would serve most people well for standard household projects. Honestly, if I had to choose and could only get one additional piece of equipment (assuming I have a track saw and a router), it would be a router table before a table saw. There are things that you cannot do with a router, even track guided, that you can do with a table mounted router. I struggle to think of a cut I cannot make with a track saw that I could a table saw (well, dado, but with a track guided router, you've got that handled). Yes, it would be a lot faster to make many of the cuts on my table saw, and I'm really happy I have both, but it's hard to beat the versatility of a tracked system with some parallel guides.
Even with a shop full of very nice stationary equipment, my track saw gets a workout in a lot of projects. One of my most common uses is strightlining long/rough lumber. Yes, I could do it with a jointer, or an elaborate table saw jig. But the track makes it so easy, joint one face flat, drop on the track, straight line and edge; plane the other face, run the resulting board through the table saw to get it to final dimension. Plenty of ways to do that, but really nice and easy with a track saw.
The other tool that I have that a track could not replace is my bandsaw. If you want to bookmatch or cut down thicker lumber, there's no really good way to get that done without a bandsaw.
Contributor
It's not an equipment problem. It's a layout problem. Many sets of cabinets have been made plumb, level, and square with nothing more than a circular saw. I'm not saying it's easy, and not only can be done, but has been done. I built one house full of cabinets a year for 33 years with no more accurate tools than circular saws, contractors table saw, and framing squares. They were neither small, nor cheap houses. I did use very sharp no. 4 pencils.
Contributor
Great thread, I think most people encounter this issue, specially for large panels...
I have a PM2k, but can not break down sheets on it, too big, requires too much shop space, and should have two people. I work alone mostly.
so I have a Track Saw for large sheets, cut outside (not possible for those in harsh weather climates)
I also have large MFT, built using the Parf II system.
MFT's are NOT perfectly square, at least from my experience. I was soooo diligent with drilling my parf II holes, and yet, the squareness is just good, but for larger sheets, not as good as I wanted... its been so long since I made it, cant recall the exact error it was. Of course for short cuts say 16" or less, its sufficient. Every time you double the distance, you double the error, hence why longer cuts produce unacceptable tolerances where shorter cuts produce acceptable tolerances.
I like the idea of just cutting sheets down to smaller sizes, then work them on the TS, when possible, if you have a good TS set up accurately. I do this when possible, but its a lot of extra steps.
The single best tool I own for square large panels, is the 26" WP square, its super square (read the tolerances on their web site) and is the ultimate reference for square. So as another poster mentioned, cut the long side of a sheet to clean up the straight line, use the WP 26" square to get a clean 90 on the short side. Now u have two near perfect references. Cut the rest to size using the same square to set the track. Fastest and most accurate system I have found. Of course, this excludes large scale shops with sliders, panel saws, etc.
Stow-away tools, for hobbyist ww are the holy grail for prof. projects when performed in limited sized work spaces.
Last edited by Will Blick; 02-14-2022 at 4:17 PM.
Member
TSO Guide Rail Squares are dead on accurate in my experience, has been a big time saver for me.
Contributor
I am curious if only WP makes such a large precision square at 26"...
any others on the market that are precisioned, vs construction grade?
I own TSO clamp on squares... IMO, too small, and the system (rail and clamp) can be off.
the square itself is highly accurate, its the process of clamping it on the rails (Festool rail) which are a bit flimsy, which is the weak link. I had to put some blue tape on my square to get it square. They prob suffice for short cuts, on short rails. But I would never rely it for a 4ft+ cut. No knock on TSO here, they make great products, its the premise. Many companies make these clamp on rail squares. Be sure to check after they are clamped on with a reliable reference. Which goes back to the same issue, a large accurate reference is key, if u have that, just use it set the rail, instead of these other gizmos.
gotta learn everything the hard way.
I am only addressing how to make square cuts on larger panels, which seemed to be the gist of the OP question.
Last edited by Will Blick; 02-14-2022 at 4:09 PM.
Member
Lots of ways to make a cabinet, obviously.... I just made our kitchen cabinets and used 3/4 Baltic Birch-brand plywood for the boxes. Joined the box sides, top, back, and bottom with rabbet/dado, screws, and glue. I broke down the 5 x5 pieces of plywood with a Festool Tracksaw on the floor, placing the pieces on top of a 4 x 8 piece of 2" thick closed cell pink foam insulation. I have the woodpeckers right-angle tracksaw jig so that way each of the pieces had at least one 90-deg corner. I was able to take each of the (now) more manageable-sized pieces to the tablesaw and made the cuts to final dimension. I used a roller floor stand in front the table saw on the infeed side and a folding outfeed table to help support the plywood - these really made it easy to make the cuts. Then I used a dado blade and sacrificial fence to make all the rabbets along the edges. This worked out really well and the boxes came out square - at least close enough, anyways. The cabinets are frameless/euro-style and so I applied solid wood edgebanding, before assembling the boxes.
Good luck!
Scott
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