Flush trimming / pattern cutting on shaper with rabbeting block and bearing?

[Phillip Mitchell]

Mel, I want a Corrugated head as well and it’s on the list. I don’t really do much traditional styled, molded work and thus haven’t really had a need for a flexible head like a corrugated as of yet. I am also pretty new to shapers and tooling, and was not indoctrinated in the old ways so may well be going about it backwards in terms of tooling order of acquisition.

[Kevin Jenness]

They are for different purposes. Corrugated heads are great for custom profiles. The insert cutters don't change diameter and always match the bearing. Corrugated cutters would have to be ground down by exactly one notch to retain the same relationship, or ground in the head and the bearing ground to match.

I have a brazed hss pattern cutter with a sleeved bearing that can be ground at the same time. My insert head, similar design to the Schmidt, does a cleaner job on figured wood, probably because of the greater rake angle.

I can't decide if there is a higher tooling/machine cost ratio associated with lathes or shapers.

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks, Kevin. With my custom set of 3 bearings for corg heads I can get cut profile within 1/64 th . I think that is a better way that
should have been on the shelves years ago. Then I would not have had to wait for my Son to get old enough to do the math for me !

[Kevin Jenness]

Thanks, Kevin. With my custom set of 3 bearings for corg heads I can get cut profile within 1/64 th . I think that is a better way that
should have been on the shelves years ago. Then I would not have had to wait for my Son to get old enough to do the math for me !

That's a good solution, though I will stick with my insert head. There's more ways to the woods than one!

[Joe Calhoon]

Phillip, hope it works well for you. I know those cutters are popular now, but I think they are not as useful as corg heads . The corg. will
make a smoother straight cut and do moulding . I’m guessing that there is now a perception that they are somehow safer than corg.

Mel, my experience is the insert carbide and spiral carbide cut much better than corrugated. And a lot safer if hand feeding because of the limited cutter projection. I use corrugated a lot for short run custom moulding. It’s the cheapest way to a custom profile. Don’t like doing curve work with them.
adjustable dead collar solves all the issues associated with rub collar bearings.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Joe,

Pardon my inexperience - what’s an adjustable dead collar?

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks, Joe. Feeding by hand is a lot safer and more accurate with use of spring hold -downs. I worked in several shops that did not
have them . But I promised the management that if they didn’t know where to buy them ,I knew a guy who would make them ,and
reminded them that US gov. and insurance companies liked the idea. Without them the nervous will often get spooked when the work rocks
on the table and flies a few feet. But usually the machine operator is not hurt….just some random unlucky passers by!

[Jared Sankovich]

Joe,

Pardon my inexperience - what’s an adjustable dead collar?

Ring fence (In British English)

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Ignore the French spindle, but this is the concept
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[Joe Calhoon]

Phillip,
yes the Brit’s call them a ring fence. Aigner calls theirs a curve moulding guide. I have a couple, the Aigner and a less expensive one that came with a machine. CPS I think. I like the Aigner but use the other one sometimes because it will do tighter radius. With the Aigner you can use the adjustable dead collar or a ball bearing rub collar. I have to do that on my 80mm diameter spiral because Aigner doesn’t go quite that small. It has a run up finger that keeps the bearing from rotating. Dust collection is good with these, safer than coming off a starting pin and nice that you can sneak up on big cuts on thick doors and windows.
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[Warren Lake]

ILl speak up for high speed steel. I have no skin in the game. Both of these are serrated edge fed by hand. Done over 40 years ago ball bearing head I showed above only different knives but the straight were used first before the profile. I ground the knives for the one on the right, first time for that. You couldn't ask for a cleaner cut. In production its going to dull faster of course. Its honed before the next use. Honing is fast and easy. I think ive read twice about guys with planers with knife grinders saying they have seen no finer finish even on figured woods. Be interesting to hear from someone who does that and how well it works

Doing custom you can get a knife made corg or serrated simple and easy. . If i wanted to do either of these in insert how does that work, you wait and pay big? This stuff works well, sometimes even grinding or changing a cutter to make the profile needed. The last three generation molding company I talked to told me 80 percent of what they use was corrugated at least at that time.

Old stuff is not for everyone. Serrated has its own danger over corg even if you have time on it. So does any cutter. If it doesnt pull you in as much, so what stay out of the cutters. Non of this stuff comes with air bags. They all have their place and their differences. I like having a choice if I had to run baltic or some other material then of course insert. Not that Nasa insert one that wont cut a straight line.

Kevin you mentioned about tooling investment I think of a one man tool and die maker who said he had huge in tooling but he also had tooling he made himself as they were taught that. You could have 50-100k in shaper tooling easily. Saw lots of tooling for sale at auctions over the years. Amazing how much some companies had to have. Furniture making companies like Gibbard or B and G the old school companies. Many jigs. History gone in a few days. Windows all around and wood floors and beams inside. Those shops had a sound when you walked through. Very live sounding. It was worth the time to go to auctions in other ways than just the machinery.


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[Mel Fulks]

Mel, my experience is the insert carbide and spiral carbide cut much better than corrugated. And a lot safer if hand feeding because of the limited cutter projection. I use corrugated a lot for short run custom moulding. It’s the cheapest way to a custom profile. Don’t like doing curve work with them.
adjustable dead collar solves all the issues associated with rub collar bearings.

The only problems I’ve had with steel cutters were with the low grade stuff sometimes sold , at least years ago, as “same hardness as M2”.
It often left striations after just several feet of cutting and was much worse about tear-out than real M2. I have used some high grade
carbide cutters that did leave a shiny ,non striated fine surface. No problems with T1.

[Joe Calhoon]

Warren, the curve crown is straight forward enough but please describe the jig and setup you used on the shaper to do the oval frame. Possible on a tilting shaper but very tricky with that tight radius. I would probably run that one on the Williams and Hussy.

[Warren Lake]

Plywood jig screwed to the bottom that should have more handles on it, mirror upside down from memory to start, you had to hand over hand, one handle to the other, one handle a big dowel on each end of the jig. First time using it, get the feel for it while using it and not liking it. I didnt make the jigs. Mirror was four sections that one is pine. Band sawed just over final size then dowelled together clamping from extra material not bandsawed off to give a place to put the clamps. Flush trimmed to the plywood jig with the ball bearing head above straight knives inside and outside. Profile cut in steps on the inside profile. One pass on the outside profile from memory so three knives outside inside and straight from memory. The small cove in the mirror might have been and think was a router bit. Only time I did them and long ago. I might have the cutters. There was no issue with the smaller radius that I remember. Its a 3" head ball bearing on one end. First time on the shaper. that would never be allowed now any of it. The crown was screwed to a jig one for the shape and one for straight cut for the sides.

[Joe Calhoon]

The oval frame looked like the large cove dipped below the surrounding surface requiring a cut from a tilting shaper or from the top with a W&H type moulder. But evidently not if you did it the conventional way.
For these type deep profiles I Would never have a insert carbide cutter made unless the quantities are great. For me any custom profile the customer buys the knives and I keep them. This is where corrugated is the most inexpensive way to go. From a business standpoint grinding your own seems like a non marketable skill given how inexpensive and quick they come from someone set up for it.

Another and more expensive than corrugated option for these deep type cuts is a Whitehill or Leitz type limiter cutter head with good HSS.

In a past life I made hundreds of doors with oval and curved mouldings. Had developed good jigs using braised carbide cutters. Now everything is one off. Would agree that good HSS makes a little better cut than braised carbide at first but the carbide keeps going. The insert carbide is a different animal than braised and cuts much better than HSS.

[Jared Sankovich]

The insert carbide is a different animal than braised and cuts much better than HSS.

I think I could shave with some of the carbide inserts I have.

As we are on the topic of carbide inserts and spiral heads.. does anyone with small amana head have issues. I've talked to a few other people with them. Some work great, some leave tracks.
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