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Thread: LH Veritas plow v- Veritas combination plane

  1. #1
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    LH Veritas plow v- Veritas combination plane

    I have been working too much overtime lately and have the tooling to show for it.

    I have two of the Veritas RH plow plane bodies, and a set of all the (RH) Imperial blades. I could very well buy both a LH plow plane AND a combination plane, but I am kinda leaning towards getting the mortgage paid off early while they are throwing money at me with a manure spreader.

    It seems to me the combination plane has a pair of knickers and some extended fence options, but uses the same RH blades as my existing RH plow planes.

    It seems the smaller plow plane blades are not ambidextrous, but the wider plow plane blades are ambidextrous.

    Is there a compelling reason to get both, the LH plow with narrow LH blades AND the combination plane?

    FWIW what I am doing right now is making T&G boards to close up the back of a case I am working on. It turns out I am cutting grooves with the grain (easy peasy) and tongues against the grain (which has me looking at the LH plow).

    I am willing to put them both on backorder if there is a compelling reason to do so. I am enjoying casework, though I have a ways to go to consider myself good at it.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Winners View Post
    I have been working too much overtime lately and have the tooling to show for it.

    I have two of the Veritas RH plow plane bodies, and a set of all the (RH) Imperial blades. I could very well buy both a LH plow plane AND a combination plane, but I am kinda leaning towards getting the mortgage paid off early while they are throwing money at me with a manure spreader.

    It seems to me the combination plane has a pair of knickers and some extended fence options, but uses the same RH blades as my existing RH plow planes.

    It seems the smaller plow plane blades are not ambidextrous, but the wider plow plane blades are ambidextrous.

    Is there a compelling reason to get both, the LH plow with narrow LH blades AND the combination plane?

    FWIW what I am doing right now is making T&G boards to close up the back of a case I am working on. It turns out I am cutting grooves with the grain (easy peasy) and tongues against the grain (which has me looking at the LH plow).

    I am willing to put them both on backorder if there is a compelling reason to do so. I am enjoying casework, though I have a ways to go to consider myself good at it.

    Thanks
    Maybe I'm fundamentally misunderstanding this, but if the groove is centered can't you just flip the board 180 degrees so you are cutting with the grain?
    Always put the crappy side against the wall

  3. #3
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    Good morning Scott, here is a post from five years ago reviewing the Veritas Small Plow Plane > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?251419 < There is mention of some of the design differences that make the case for having both a plow and a combination plane. Remember at this time the Veritas Combination Plane was still in the evaluation phase and not yet on the general market.

    Not having had a Veritas Combination Plane in my hands to try, the following is based on images at > https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...e?item=05P5901

    It looks as if the VCP can be set up with the fence on the right hand side of the plane for left hand use. On occasions my Stanley #45 gets set up this way:

    #45 Set Up Lefty.jpg

    So, with having a combination plane you may not need a LH Plow.

    You may even find in a pinch the fence on the RH plow can be used on the other side to work like a left hand plane. This is something that didn't come to mind to try when one was in my shop.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Buresh View Post
    Maybe I'm fundamentally misunderstanding this, but if the groove is centered can't you just flip the board 180 degrees so you are cutting with the grain?
    I am going to put the crappy side against the wall Jason. No idea where I got that idea ;-)

    I bought a piece of 5/4 poplar and had it resawn more or less in half by my purveyor. Stickered and strapped for two weeks, I have two pieces with cup, but enough left to do my back panel and secondary wood for my drawers. Once I figured out how I want the grain on the back panel to look I took just enough off the backs for the ride good through my lunch box planer and just enough from the show sides to get to machine flat.

    I am referencing the plow plane off the show side of each board for both the tongues and the grooves. Some of my pieces are kinda rough on the wall side.

    And my T/G is not on center. Thickness ranges from 7/16 to 8/16, I am doing 2/16 lip on the show side, 3/16 t/g and then 2-3/16 flat on the wall side.

    I may not do it this way again next time, but the haggis is in the fire now.

  5. #5
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    Jim, appreciate your input. I can mount the fence on a RH plow to use it in a LH configuration, but I am going to need a 'very' special wooden insert on the factory metal fence to get the iron close to the fence edge of the board. The depth stop is in the way of bringing the metal fence in tight to the plane body, as are the knurled nuts on the fence bars.

    I did tonight email one specific question to Lee Valley customer service:

    Quote Originally Posted by outgoingemail
    I have one specific question relative to the combination plane. If I were to make a correctly dimensioned wooden add-on to the metal guide fence on the combination plane, in the left handed configuration, could I use say a 3/16 inch RH iron to cut a 1/8 inch rabbet on the corner of a board with the other 1/16 of the 3/16 iron outside the board slicing air?
    The above based on I can't get off my two smartphones during business hours to take a call from Lee Valley, but they have some encouraging verbiage on the website about the combination plane I didn't notice last night:

    Quote Originally Posted by combinationplanewebpage
    The position of the blade adjuster prevents left-hand-only blades (1/8" to 3/8" and 4mm to 10mm) from being used in this plane; however, the reversible fence lets you use the right-hand blades for both right-hand and left-hand cuts.
    My thinking is with a potentially problematic to fabricate wooden insert screwed to the metal fence, that clears the depth stop and who knows what else, I can probably get the combination plane to do anything the LH plow could do.

    Thanks again

  6. #6
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    My tongue and grooves are never centered on the board. I'll pick a side and use that as the reference. Generally the show face, so that this will be the flush side. I'll try and set that all up so that I can plane with the grain, then flip the board and repeat. Then again, I typically use match planes for this, and you can't adjust the fence. If I have to deal with planing against the grain, I make that the groove, since the tongue is more visible.
    ~mike

    life in a mud hut

  7. #7
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    Scott, I'm going to watch this space for Derek Cohen to give you an answer. I'll bet HE'LL know about the comparison.
    Young enough to remember doing it;
    Old enough to wish I could do it again.

  8. #8
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    When you have thicknessed a board with hand planes (as opposed to a power planer), you have to work from a reference side to ensure accuracy.

    This means that you can only work in one direction. If going against the grain, knife the boundaries and add a 15 degree backbevel to increase the cutting angle.

    You have the Small Plow. Get the T&G upgrade kit. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...SmallPlow.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  9. #9
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    Derek, my curiosity was piqued when Scott asked the relative value (in my estimation) of upgrading his plow plane to a combination plane. I know you have had/used both. If I recollect from your site you felt the combination plane was more versatile, but that's from memory. I have neither, so was personally curious about your opinion.
    Young enough to remember doing it;
    Old enough to wish I could do it again.

  10. #10
    Derek, when you say put a 15 back bevel on the blades do you suggest buying two sets (one for plaining with the grain and one against)? that's going to add up quick

  11. #11
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    I am apparently asking a hard question or not expressing myself well, as it took a few emails back and forth to LV customer service to get this straightened out.

    The plan is, for making T&G on stock 8-12 sixteenths thick, I should be able to use one RH plow, one set of RH plow plane irons including the tongue iron and one combination plane in the LH configuration, the latter with a fairly thick and complex wooden spacer on the metal fence. And now be able to cut T&G, always referencing off the show side, but planing with the grain for both T&G.

    It remains now only for someone like Tom M King to wander by and mention a thing the LH plow can do that the combination plane cannot do.

    I will post pics once I have the combination plane off backorder and the fence for it built, for future search button users.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Rosenthal View Post
    Derek, my curiosity was piqued when Scott asked the relative value (in my estimation) of upgrading his plow plane to a combination plane.
    I am keeping both of my RH plow plane bodies for now. What I was really trying to get at was does it make sense to skip buying a LH small plow and get a combination plane instead. With one or both as a complement to the existing RH small plow.

    I will be quiet now and wait for my backorder to come in.

  13. #13
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    I'd like a left-handed set of beading planes In wood. That bothers me more than the T&G
    ~mike

    life in a mud hut

  14. #14
    This is interesting. Please post your solution if viable

  15. #15
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    It occured to me on the way home that my chosen course when I left the office was to put a high dollar plane on backorder, leave my current project stalled, and then make a wooden fence insert to use an RH plane in LH configuration. I already got RH planes in stock. So I made a wooden fence insert for small RH plow that allows me to use it in LH configuration.

    I don't love it, but I got all my tongues cleaned up. I see this as a temporary stop gap that might cause Rob Lee to frown. I think this solution is viable but likely temporary.

    The blank was generous 4/4 poplar, I came up with 15/16 rough. After planing smooth I still see 14/16. Nominal 10 inches long (should be longer) by 1 1/4 tall. The mortise cutout for the chip deflector and the leading corner of the iron is nominal 3/4 x 3/4 x 1 1/4 long. For the mortise think of a half blind dovetail socket with no slope on the walls. Saw to the lines, kerfing chisel, regular chisel, boom done. Beveled corners are directly off the rasp, no sanding. I think I had this in service in 30-45 minutes.

    I was having chips hang up in the mortise I cut, so I had to stop rather a lot and poke about in there with a pencil. As built this first version can slide right up to the skate. For the next one I will put more length behind the mortise and then cut a groove on only part of the length so the remainder of the insert can reach -around- the skate and allow the leading corner of the iron to hang out in air off the edge of the workpiece a bit further. I do want the fence insert to be in full height contact with the workpiece in front of and behind the skate on the next one.

    For now I am kinda thinking I don't need to order a LH plow plane or a combination plane either one. First pic is a RH small plow in temporary LH configuration. Second has pencil lines on it where I need to make a groove to fit around the skate. Need more length towards the rear so the groove can stop and then have full height fence insert for the remainder of fence insert length.

    20220125_180756[1].jpg20220125_180819[1].jpg





    As built the item is less ergonomic then factory, because the fence has to be flipped fore/aft to enter the plane body from the other side- and be sure to slide the knurled nuts onto the guide rods before the guide rods enter the plane body.

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