Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 66

Thread: Electrical service size

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    60,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bender View Post
    I thought anything resembling shop class went out decades ago.
    That is not universal...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lancaster, Ohio
    Posts
    987
    Shop class is almost gone, however jewelry making, clay, and any other art classes are thriving.
    Ron

  3. #18
    I quote out machines to high schools several times each year. Seems like industrial arts is still a thing, though definitely not like when we were in high school.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    11,655
    At least one local public school offers welding classes, I know a girl who took a welding class as a HS student and is now in an extensive adult evening welding program at the school.
    I don't know what else they still offer.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch schiffer View Post
    I did pay a electrician to do a load calculation for my shop and my wife's studio which cane to 380 amps. The calculation does not include the house or storefront. I have the choice of propane for the water heaters, stoves, and dryer. I am hoping to get some real world experience from other with similar size equipment and what they have for a service.
    Seems like you know what you need, at least the 600a service. I don't think many of us have that kind of load requirements (or 8k sqft spaces) so what others are doing may not be a good metric.
    Last edited by derek labian; 01-24-2022 at 1:51 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Southwest WI
    Posts
    245
    Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    Seems like you know what you need, at least the 600a service. I don't think many of us have that kind of load requirements (or 8k sqft spaces) so what others are doing may not be a good metric.
    I figured it was a bit of a long shot. It is just tough to stomach the cost to install a service over 320 amps. I originally budgeted 6k to get the panels installed. Its looking like the cost just to get the panels in will be 20k+

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Southwest WI
    Posts
    245
    There is still a woodshop, metal shop, and automotive class at one of the high schools local to me. I did a teachers assistant program for the welding class several years back.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    107
    My kids in Fairfax County Virginia take what is called a Design Class but it is actually shop class. They have made cutting boards, turned pens and bowls, etc. They just don't call it shop anymore. When I visited the school and saw the shop area I was in hog heaven. They've got just about every power tool you can imagine except for routers.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    North Dana, Masachusetts
    Posts
    366
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch schiffer View Post
    The cost to install 3 phase was 114k$ that is out of my budget.
    Is the 20 hp sander three phase? With motors over 5 hp, it's a good idea to use three phase.

    Three phase from the pole is a huge barrier. A simple rotary phase converter makes sense. I have a 20 HP motor set up as a phase converter to power a three phase panel. I paid $500. for the motor. I start it with a Dewalt corded electric drill with high RPMs, which cost about $80. I drilled and tapped a hole in the end of the motor shaft, and put a bolt in the hole. I chucked a nut driver into the drill to connect the drill to the motor. The switch to energize the motor and panel is a big old knife switch that I found in a junk pile. I get the motor spinning with the drill, pull the drill off, and throw the knife switch.

    This system was sized by an electrician, and has a 70 amp breaker in the main panel. Big old 3 phase motors can be found cheap. And also, bolt the motor down.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch schiffer View Post
    I figured it was a bit of a long shot. It is just tough to stomach the cost to install a service over 320 amps. I originally budgeted 6k to get the panels installed. Its looking like the cost just to get the panels in will be 20k+
    I had no idea it was so expensive. I would do what others have said, put in multiple services. Even though it's a single building, you should be able to put in multiple services, just tell them there are going to be two tenants. That should cut the cost down dramatically.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch schiffer View Post
    ... It is a old grocery store the is about 8k square feet. ...
    8000sqft is not a huge grocery by modern standards, so I can see where they might not have had 3phase, but for your loads it really makes sense. I think I'd look carefully at the phase conversion options - and 480V service if possible. Even if you put in a step-up transformer to get 480V, you should recoup some of that cost by reducing the gauge of all your machine's wire runs.

    Not sure if this qualifies as advice, or just my curiosity, but if this grocery operated anytime in the last 30 years, I would have assumed there is already a significant electrical system in place: HVAC, coolers, freezers, displays, lighting, etc. Is there none of that remaining that can be re-purposed for your use?

    Just realized you didn't mention the service voltage you expect. The service amperage means little without this....??
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 01-25-2022 at 10:37 AM.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Southwest WI
    Posts
    245
    3 phase is 70k for the service provider and 44k from the electrician for 208. For 480 I would need a transformer which was another 12k. 3 phase power is just not a option for these reasons. The store was built in circa 1895 and was operated as a grocery store till about 1990 it was then gutted and it has been several different businesses. I have used it for storage for the past couple years. I currently have a 200 amp 240v service there that I assume was installedin the 90s. There are still some compressors and other refrigeration equipment still there.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Cambridge Vermont
    Posts
    1,860
    $114k, ouch. How far are the lines from your building? Did they have to put in new poles? I've heard the price is all over the place. I was looking to build a shop next to my wife's house that has 3 phase in the back yard. No extra poles would be needed as it's only about 150'. The power company said to estimate about $5k to $10k but wouldn't go into detail until formal plans were in place. Her lot isn't big enough so I would have to buy a vacant lot next to it to build on. If that works out I would probably pull the trigger.

    Estimating the power needed is a little trickier with 3 phase. It's not just 1/3 the current needed compared to single phase. You also need to figure out what the maximum single phase load you could have. For a woodshop it's not too bad as I don't think I've ever seen a single phase motor over 10hp.

    But a large single phase kiln could draw a lot of power. A friend of a friend makes custom coffee mugs and has a medium size walk in kiln. I think she said it was on a 200 amp breaker? If so that would mean 600 amp 3 phase power (she doesn't have 3 phase). 600 amps of 3 phase power would drive a lot of woodworking tools.

  14. #29
    I understood from your previous posts that 3ph service was cost prohibited, so I was suggesting you look at 1ph service and a DIY 3ph phase conversion. Apologies for my syntactical imprecision. You certainly seem to have investigated this thoroughly, so not likely I can be much further help.

    You clearly have a dream and a plan for it, so you have my best wishes in accomplishing this. I hope at least 7500 of those square feet are your shop! And please keep us informed of progress.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Okotoks AB
    Posts
    3,317
    Blog Entries
    1
    A large kiln would almost certainly be 3 phase, or at least easily adaptable to 3 phase. But clearly that is moot here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •