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Thread: how would you make this chamfered edge?

  1. #1
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    how would you make this chamfered edge?

    As part of rebuilding an organ action I need to make a board with an array of 72 wells in it. The wells are about 3/8" deep and 1-1/8" " in diameter. Clearly drilling the holes is easy, but how would you reproduce the chamfered edge (there are several reasons why it is important to the eventual function of the piece-- a piece of very thin, dished piece of leather will be glued over top of it and air pressure from underneath will actuate a valve. I can get into the details if anyone cares. So I'm not interested in redesigning it, just trying to figure out how it can be made. Dozens of organ manufacturers have made the same thing over the last two centuries, so it must be pretty straightforward, but there is no tool to do it in the organ supply catalogs. They need to be reasonably uniform from well to well.

    The holes are too shallow to accommodate a router bearing, all of the countersink type cutters I can find go to a vee and would bottom out long before shaping the edge. I can imagine what the right cutter would look like, but is there any easy way to do this without having someone make me a custom tool? I don't have a mill or CNC machine, hoping for a drill press based solution.

    Here is a side and top view of the shape of the well.


    pouch well.jpg

  2. #2
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    Would a 45 degree bevel router bit with a bearing guide work? Intriguing project, I am interested!

  3. #3
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    No, the well is not deep enough to accommodate the depth of the bearing. I'm looking at a brass piloted bit from Infinity that might work, no bearing, just a rub surface that can be filed down to length. Seems like it would be easy to mess up the edge though with any slight tilt of the router. I'd be less concerned if I didn't have to get it right 72 times in a row!

  4. #4
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    How about a fly cutter in the drill press with the cutter bevel facing out? Or a custom fly cutter for the hole and chamfer at the same time? I am guessing each one will be a different diameter?

  5. #5
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    I agree a cutter on the DP would make quick work of it.

  6. #6
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    How about a fly cutter in the drill press with the cutter bevel facing out? Or a custom fly cutter for the hole and chamfer at the same time? I am guessing each one will be a different diameter? ... I have a D.I.Y compass router base for round work.
    Last edited by Maurice Mcmurry; 01-22-2022 at 8:00 PM. Reason: whoops I clicked the wrong thing

  7. #7
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    If you make a template for a router with a collet you could first cut the hole with one router using a straight or spiral bit, and then cut the chamfer with another router set up with a chamfer bit.

    Of drill the hole on the drill press, then cut the chamfer as described above, using a locator plug to guarantee the template is centered on the hole.

    John

  8. #8
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    I think I would drill a small hole in the center (before cutting the main hole) and make a circle cutting base (if you don't already have one) for a small router. Register the base using a small nail/pin in the center hole and cut a v-groove followed by the main larger diameter hole. If you keep the indexing hold small enough it should be feasible to center the main hole although it might not be perfectly aligned with the v-groove.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    No, the well is not deep enough to accommodate the depth of the bearing. I'm looking at a brass piloted bit from Infinity that might work, no bearing, just a rub surface that can be filed down to length. Seems like it would be easy to mess up the edge though with any slight tilt of the router. I'd be less concerned if I didn't have to get it right 72 times in a row!
    You can fix the tilting problem with a flat base on the router which reaches all the way across the hole to rest on the other side. The OEM bases on most routers will do that on your 1 1/8" hole.

  10. #10
    You might be able to regrind a 1 3/8" (or whatever size it works out to be) spade bit a to match the chamfer profile. Then you can cut it in the drill press with a jig that holds it centered, and the depth stop set on the quill.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Seemann View Post
    You might be able to regrind a 1 3/8" (or whatever size it works out to be) spade bit a to match the chamfer profile. Then you can cut it in the drill press with a jig that holds it centered, and the depth stop set on the quill.
    Along these lines, and with 72 to do, I might look into a custom profile blade for a rosette cutter. Not sure how long it takes to get a custom profile ground these days. Seems like everything else service-wise is really slow.
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

  12. #12
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    If you did use the flycutter method, you would only have to center the first one.. make a fence with stops and then bang them out.



    My brain is pretty tired and I'm only saying this as a thought experiment more than an actual method (because it sounds neat), but if you had a ring with correct inside diameter then you could rotate the square piece inside that circle (no slop). Then you could offset that ring on your router table such that you cut the chamfer with a vee bit. The over the top complicated method! Lol, engineers everywhere would be proud. The more I think about it, the more dangerous this sounds. Double whammy: complicated and dangerous. : )


    I like the fly cutter idea.
    Last edited by andrew whicker; 01-22-2022 at 10:41 PM.

  13. #13
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    Roger,

    That would be an interesting mechanism. I rebuilt a player piano which had 66 thin leather disks that used low pressure vacuum to operate higher pressure valves which powered the striking bellows which moved the hammers. Perhaps this is similar. In the player piano the entire mechanism, energy storage, note sensors, paper roll alignment, speed regulator, motor, and hammer actuators was vacuum driven, fascinating for something designed and patented 125 years ago.

    Just a few possibly wild ideas off the top of my head:

    • I might consider making a special fly cutter and cut the bevel with the milling machine. But that requires the milling machine and probably the metal lathe. My mill would be sturdier than my drill presses.
    • Or I might make a custom cutter with a disk that fit into the hole to align the cutter exactly. I'd have to think of the best way to do it. Is the bevel a 45-deg angle? Probably make the disk out of aluminum or steel, mill an angled cutout in one place, and drill&tap to mount a square or triangular carbide insert cutter. Seems like that would work. But again, a lot of metal working.
    • You mentioned a countersink. If you had a large countersink or reamer with the right diameter could the point be ground off?
    • If you had a CNC machine or a friend with one, it could be programmed to cut the holes and the bevels. A friend has an 8' CNC that could probably do all the 72 holes and bevels in one go. He's shown me some incredible
    • Call up an organ manufacturer and ask how they do it?
    • Is there an organization/forum of enthusiasts who may have devised ways to do this?
    • But... does it have to be one solid board? Could it be two boards with the hole drilled completely through the top board which may allow clearance for a router bearing, then glue a solid board on underneath? If the hole needed to be deeper to accommodate the router bearing perhaps the top board could be thicker than needed then resawn or planed to the right thickness before the bottom board was glued on.


    JKJ

    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    As part of rebuilding an organ action I need to make a board with an array of 72 wells in it. The wells are about 3/8" deep and 1-1/8" " in diameter. Clearly drilling the holes is easy, but how would you reproduce the chamfered edge (there are several reasons why it is important to the eventual function of the piece-- a piece of very thin, dished piece of leather will be glued over top of it and air pressure from underneath will actuate a valve. I can get into the details if anyone cares. So I'm not interested in redesigning it, just trying to figure out how it can be made. Dozens of organ manufacturers have made the same thing over the last two centuries, so it must be pretty straightforward, but there is no tool to do it in the organ supply catalogs. They need to be reasonably uniform from well to well.

    The holes are too shallow to accommodate a router bearing, all of the countersink type cutters I can find go to a vee and would bottom out long before shaping the edge. I can imagine what the right cutter would look like, but is there any easy way to do this without having someone make me a custom tool? I don't have a mill or CNC machine, hoping for a drill press based solution.

    Here is a side and top view of the shape of the well.

    pouch well.jpg

  14. #14
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    Organs are really amazing. My father In Laws life calling is to help save big old inner-city churches. One that I worked on a lot in the 1980s has a big beautiful Pipe Organ. I used to meet the blind, 80+ year old, piano tuner Gentleman and take him to the piano. When he was done tuning the piano he would ask to play the Organ. I would take him to the organ as well. It always had things wrong with it and he would try to direct me in fixing it. Thank goodness I knew better than to try. We did eventually get an organ specialist and I got to help him a little. What truly amazing woodworking and mechanical engineering. That church is thriving again and the organ is still used.

    I will try spinning a block around a center pivot index pin on the router table with a v-grove bit.
    Last edited by Maurice Mcmurry; 01-22-2022 at 11:57 PM. Reason: caps

  15. #15
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    I would drill it into one thick piece of wood to allow a deep registration hole. After it is drilled and and chamfered resaw off the portion you want. The other way would be to attach the thin work piece to a chunk of 2x6 with double sided tape, some screws etc.
    Aircraft countersinks max out at about 7/8" Diameter so no good.
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 01-23-2022 at 1:56 AM.

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