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Thread: confusion on the use of the chipbreaker

  1. #31
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    2 examples...1) Millers Falls No. 9, Type 4....chipbreaker is set 1mm back from the iron's edge...have never had a hint of chatter, nor tear-out. Iron is OEM Solid tool steel. Flat back, single 25 degree bevel.

    2). Wood River No. 62. factory 25 degree bevel, flat back, no chipbreaker ( bevel up) Even with the mouth closed up tight, still has a lot of tear out in not only Pine(with knots) Aromatic Red Cedar, and Ash, when face plane working....Jointer work? Works great, just a tad s l o w.....

    Wood the shop has used over the years: White & Red Oak, All kinds of Maple, Figured Cherry, Sycamore, Walnut, Rosewood ( Plane totes), Poplar, Cottonwood( Fuzzy stuff,stinks) the Cedar, Pine, and Ash.

    I live in Ohio, so that is the wood choices I have. I have noticed that the Millers Falls irons are just a tad thicker than most Stanley irons.....
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    2). Wood River No. 62. factory 25 degree bevel, flat back, no chipbreaker ( bevel up) Even with the mouth closed up tight, still has a lot of tear out in not only Pine(with knots) Aromatic Red Cedar, and Ash, when face plane working....
    Steven, that is exactly what I have been saying here - you have the plane set up incorrectly. A 25 degree bevel on a 12-degree bed of the LA Jack creates a 37 degree cutting angle. It will - definitely, unreservedly, unquestionably, assuredly, unequivocally, categorically and decidedly ... tear out all face grain in its path. Even Pine.

    ALL you have to do is add a 40 degree secondary bevel to the blade, and discover a whole new plane. Go on .. do it

    Regards fro Perth

    Derek

    p.s. Paul Sellers did the same, and then proclaimed BU planes rubbish. Makes you think ...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assaf Oppenheimer View Post
    Most of my planing to date has been done in hard maple.

    in my (limited) experience hard maple planes really well until it doesn't. End grain is also the bane of my existence.
    I hate planing maple. It always seems to tear out. My solution has been paying very close attention to grain direction, setting the mouth of the plane very tight, setting the chipbreaker close, and taking light cuts. I've also had good luck with a bevel up plane and a high cutting angle as Derek mentions above.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Steven, that is exactly what I have been saying here - you have the plane set up incorrectly. A 25 degree bevel on a 12-degree bed of the LA Jack creates a 37 degree cutting angle. It will - definitely, unreservedly, unquestionably, assuredly, unequivocally, categorically and decidedly ... tear out all face grain in its path. Even Pine.

    ALL you have to do is add a 40 degree secondary bevel to the blade, and discover a whole new plane. Go on .. do it

    Regards fro Perth

    Derek

    p.s. Paul Sellers did the same, and then proclaimed BU planes rubbish. Makes you think ...
    One more thing on a bevel up plane besides the bevel angle, don't try to take an 0.030" shaving.

    Thick shavings are just asking for tear out, especially with a plane best suited to cut end grain.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Luter View Post
    I hate planing maple. It always seems to tear out. My solution has been paying very close attention to grain direction, setting the mouth of the plane very tight, setting the chipbreaker close, and taking light cuts. I've also had good luck with a bevel up plane and a high cutting angle as Derek mentions above.
    Hating planing any wood should be a thing of the past, once you get those straight shavings.
    Stick to the basics, and forget about a tight mouth, and focus on the influence of the cap alone, which is more than sufficient for planing any species.
    You can forget about reading grain direction beyond rough jack planing, should you need to take off a lot,
    If you don't, which is likely for fancier timbers...
    Then the finer cambered,(if you like), jack, panel, try, or what have you, needs to have enough influence for the timber at hand, so you can smooth with a swipe or two to
    get down to any inkling of tearout.
    If you have to take multiple shavings, to get down to large pits, then things are not working as they should, and that makes for hard work.
    Smoothing should never tear out on even the most troublesome timbers, regardless of grain direction.

    Influence as in either setting the cap iron closer, (perhaps your cambered cutter is too large to get the cap close enough yet?)
    or making the leading edge of the cap iron steeper.

    If you get large tearout, then that is simply the case, and an easy remedy to get that cap to have more infulence.

    No masterful sharpening required, if it cuts hair then it's good enough.
    Note that relying on uber sharpness to stop tearout, is a sure sign of not enough influence.

    Having a tight mouth was the reason it had not worked for me, and I've not closed the mouth up since then.

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Trees; 01-22-2022 at 3:52 PM.

  6. #36
    no fighting.

  7. #37
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    Makes a good jointer, though..
    The Sellers Box, jointing.JPG
    YMMV, of course.....
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  8. #38
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    p.s. Paul Sellers did the same, and then proclaimed BU planes rubbish. Makes you think ...
    Paul Sellers has done many things to make me question some of his methods. He does make me think of a Benjamin Franklin quote, "Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it."

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Paul Sellers has done many things to make me question some of his methods. He does make me think of a Benjamin Franklin quote, "Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it."

    jtk
    I cringed when he once mentioned that your hand made a good strop in a pinch. Be that as it may, that's better left for people to learn on their own....love the guy though.

  10. #40
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    Old timers did indeed use the palm of their hands as a quick strop...however..theirs would be very callused up, from working with those hands all day long, 6 days a week.
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  11. #41
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    When using your hand as a strop, do you need to apply the honing paste to your palm or are the calluses sufficient?

  12. #42
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    Tobacco Juice...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keegan Shields View Post
    When using your hand as a strop, do you need to apply the honing paste to your palm or are the calluses sufficient?
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Tobacco Juice...
    Ain't none of that around here. Not likely to spit some in my hand if it was.

    Stropping on the canvas of a pants leg is one thing, on my bare skin is another.

    Maybe there is good reason my hand or fingers are seldom in need of a Band-Aid.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #44
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    That indeed seems to have been a normal practice in the past. My father's hands would have been certainly calloused enough to strop his blades with. I only spend a few hours in the shop a week and get blisters from time to time, we're not in the same league as old timers.

  15. #45
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    Haha nice. That might work.

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