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Thread: Mitutoyo Dial Indicators Recommenation

  1. I'll summarize Patrick's post...

    someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet2.1.png

  2. #47
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    Agreed Mike. Patrick stated it well. The other thing is words on a screen are easy to take different then they were intended. I've deleted comments here and other places because after typing them I decided it either wasn't what I intended it to be or it was and wasn't helpful or kind.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick McCarthy View Post
    Derek, For better or worse, we are a mixed group here. Notably, several of the people that responded in this and your other thread are VERY knowledgeable and well respected for their talent, experience and willingness to share. Some here have the ability to tell one to "Go to hell." in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip; others, not so much. My perception is you are taking personal offense at gruffness or direct responses, and missing the content. The content is the golden nugget, isn't it?


    Your choice, of course, but I am not certain that responding to every perceived slight is productive. It may be better to take a deep breath - or several - and then, analyze without emotion the information provided - i.e., look at what was said and not how it was said - and continue on the journey . . . in the shop. The keyboard can be an
    impediment to forward motion. JMHO, YMMV


    I shall not be interjecting further. Best, Patrick

    Hi Patrick,


    I got the message more or less.


    As I said before, I think there is just a skew of perception and reality. I'm clearly being perceived in a way that I don't feel reflects reality. I guess that's on me. I enjoy the community, lurk more than post, and enjoy the fact that there are users with a wide range of experience and knowledge. Still, ultimately, I got into woodworking because I enjoy the entire process (even when it's frustrating). I thought I was creating community conversation, filling out threads for other users looking for information, and generally interacting. Unfortunately, some perceive it as petulant, braggadocios, clueless, etc., and that's not me.


    A little about me: I have an engineering mindset. I only do flatwork, I need things to be square and precise, so I am more engineer than an artist. I do a bit of general construction and remodeling. Working with some Finish Carpenters got me into woodworking. I don't plan to ever own a Lathe, and I've started designing everything in CAD so, ultimately, I can produce as much as possible on a CNC, making it perfect. I'm sure that is a different mindset than many other woodworkers. I'm never going to run a large number of BF because I only have the weekends, and I'm primarily interested in custom/one-off solid wood projects.


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick McCarthy View Post
    Some here have the ability to tell one to "Go to hell." in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip; others, not so much. My perception is you are taking personal offense at gruffness or direct responses, and missing the content.

    That may be true, but that doesn't make it acceptable, at least to me. If users like Mark and Tom feel that way about me, there's a polite way to have that conversation that's clear and helpful, and there's the way he is approaching it, by assuming the worst about me and then trolling me. They have sized me up categorized me without really knowing much about me other than a few forum posts about equipment. Beyond that the forum rules are pretty straightforward:


    It's important to let everyone know that the number one rule here is that you are never unfriendly towards anyone. I have absolutely no patience for those who cannot participate in this community and maintain a civilized and respectful behavior. I only ask that anyone who sees or experiences unfriendly behavior please report the post so we can deal with the problem right away."

    Still, I don't see anyone here standing up for my POV, just people like you justifying their statements, so the perception I've created is the reality, and that's on me.


    I don't see any further need to continue this conversation, and I'm not sure why this thread hasn't been closed; it has NOTHING to do with a topic about a Dial Indicator.

  4. #49
    No dog in this fight but Derek, I would just pay Sam to come out and dial in your machines. He certainly knows how. Or perhaps visit him and have him show you in person on his machine? I would hope that they would put in a little effort on your behalf, considering the amount of money you spent with them. Also, if there is any aspect of working on Euro machines that is outside your scope of experience, I would pay him for a 1:1 class. Sam did these classes on a regular basis during our Minimax USA days. Both Minimax and Felder owners attended. Whatever the cost, it's small investment in the total ownership experience. To the rest of the crowd, where is this bullying coming from?

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  5. #50
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    I bought this micrometer a few years before there was an internet, so had to ask someone who knew. I was building a house next door to a house being built by the machinist that left me all his tools. We became friends with much mutual respect, but that's another story. He worked for NASA during the Apollo program, and has stuff sitting on the Moon that he not only welded, but figured out how to weld. After he left that, he spent another career teaching Welding, and Machine work.

    I told him that I wanted something to measure shavings with. He pointed me to this one, and said that Mitutoyo was a "cheap Japanese brand", but they made pretty serviceable stuff. Since then, I've seen Mitutoyo become a much more prestigious brand. I think that was in 1991, but might have been a few years later than that-don't remember exactly.

    Anyway, this cheap Japanese micrometer is still working fine.
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    Last edited by Tom M King; 01-20-2022 at 11:48 AM.

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    I bought this micrometer a few years before there was an internet, so had to ask someone who knew. I was building a house next door to a house being built by the machinist that left me all his tools. We became friends with much mutual respect, but that's another story. He worked for NASA during the Apollo program, and has stuff sitting on the Moon that he not only welded, but figured out how to weld. After he left that, he spent another career teaching Welding, and Machine work.

    I told him that I wanted something to measure shavings with. He pointed me to this one, and said that Mitutoyo was a "cheap Japanese brand", but they made pretty serviceable stuff. Since then, I've seen Mitutoyo become a much more prestigious brand. I think that was in 1991, but might have been a few years later than that-don't remember exactly.

    Anyway, this cheap Japanese micrometer is still working fine.
    I think 31+ years is the kind of usage everyone wants to get out of a tool when they buy it.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    He pointed me to this one, and said that Mitutoyo was a "cheap Japanese brand", but they made pretty serviceable stuff. Since then, I've seen Mitutoyo become a much more prestigious brand.
    Mitutoyo is top notch. Some iconic US brands have gone backwards, some of the Starrett stuff is out of CHINA now. For rules and straight edges though I'm a Starrett fan. Look at CNC lathes and mills, Japanese Mori Seiki, Mazak, Okuma to name 3, what US brand competes with them, none.

  8. #53
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    Old Mitutoyo stuff is also very well made, I think there was a misconception that they were a cheap brand simply because they were more cost effective.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #54
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    I think it was just a difference in the way they were perceived three decades ago, and I expect were a lot cheaper than the made in the USA stuff then. A lot of Japanese cars were still small, and cheap. The influx of cheap knockoffs from China hadn't even gotten going good then. All Chuck's stuff was Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, and even some Mauser stuff from WWII.

  10. #55
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    Gentlemen, not everyone has a PHD in every aspect of measurement and woodworking. We all started out at some point as novices. We owe it to the new novices and those with less experience than ourselves to be tolerant and patient with mundane questions. Let's all play nice.
    Lee Schierer
    Captain USN(Ret)

    My advice, comments and suggestions are free, but it costs money to run the site. If you found something of value here please give a little something back by becoming a contributor! Please Contribute

  11. [QUOTE=Lee Schierer;3170089]We all started out at some point as novices.

    My very first table saw 38 years ago, Craftsman. I couldn't get it to cut straight for the life of me and was about to have a meltdown. Wait for it...then discovered my Craftsman carpenter's square I used to setup the table saw wasn't actually square. (face palm)

  12. #57
    I have some Starrett, B&S, and Mitutoyo stuff, and for as much as I like it, I don't think it is necessary for woodworking or even hobby machining. I still use the no-name made in China dial indicator and base that I bought 20 odd years ago for machine set up and on my tenon jig. It performs perfectly adequately.

    Most of the advantages of the "better" stuff is that it is more durable in use, which is important in a production environment where things get used multiple times an hour (like checking the thickness of sheet metal samples from a rolling mill), but not so much in a woodshop where they get used maybe every few months (or even up to a few times a day).

    Even the in the research lab machine shop I worked in 30 years ago, though we had nice Starrett and Brown & Sharpe calipers and indicators, we normally kept them locked up and used cheap-China-brand ones in our actual daily work. The reason was that the Chinese ones were good enough, and they hit the floor at the exact same speed as the Starretts when the engineering students dropped them or knocked them off the bench. The difference was that they cost a fifth of the price to replace.

    I'm actually in the market for a digital dial indicator right now. I want to attach it to my new tenoning jig and do relative measurements without math. I probably will get a cheap one from Grizzly rather than a Mitutoyu. It is plenty adequate and significantly cheaper. Could I afford the Mitutoyo, yes, but I have better uses for that money

    The one exception I would say is combo square measuring blades and rules. I find the engraved Starretts much easier to see than the less expensive photo etched other brands. Even though they are much more expensive, my aging eyes can see the Starretts. Definitely worth the extra cash to me

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Old Mitutoyo stuff is also very well made, I think there was a misconception that they were a cheap brand simply because they were more cost effective.
    I remember going into Tool Crib 30 years ago to buy a Starrett digital caliper, and walking out with a Mitutoyo. They were roughly the same price, the Starrett was maybe 10% more, but the Mitutoyo was sooo much more ergonomic and friendlier to use. Buying a Japanese caliper was quite a blow to a Buy-American guy like me at the time, but I was also the guy that had to use it on a daily basis

  14. #59
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    Of course everyone really knows that Interapid is where it’s at
    The Plane Anarchist

  15. #60
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    I still have a Mitutoyo dial caliper I bought in 1976 and they still work well. They were still relatively new at that time in the US but gaining popularity. My micrometers were Brown and Sharpe "slant line" which I still find easier to read. I had a Starrett "Last Word" dial test indicator. The indicators work supplied were Brown and Sharp test indicators. Almost all the indicators used in gauging on the production floor were Fowlers as I recall. There are many options and most are more than good enough to dial in a woodworking machine. The major difference between most cheap indicators and the better quality ones is the smoothness in the operation. The plunger glides smoothly in and out versus feeling "scratchy and rough".

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