Mitutoyo Dial Indicators Recommenation

[derek labian]

I currently have a digital dial indicator with resolution of .001. I was thinking about going to an analog and a better indicator. Batteries are always dying and analog just seems easier to use. I was looking at the Mitutoyo indicators.

My application will be jointer/shaper tooling setup initially.

I see there are .001 resolution dials that have resets on them so you can zero them out, and there are other dials with resolution of .0002 but don't appear to be resettable. Few questions:

1. It seems like .001 is enough for woodworking? The .0005 or .0002 is attractive but it seems like it might be overkill.
2. How important is the ability to reset? (I'm assuming the .0002 analog etc can't be reset).
3. The ruby tip seems nice, any thoughts?

Anyone have any specific recommendations? I saw several threads that recommended HF.. It seems like a shame to spend $150 on a holder and $20 on the actual indicator, but I don't want to waste money either.

[Lisa Starr]

Derek, I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for. The repeatability of the HF is probably iffy. I'm sure the .001" would be fine for woodworking, but I'd prefer a .0005". I'm not sure if you're looking at a dial indicator or a dial test indicator so I'm not sure I understand the "reset" feature you're asking about.

[derek labian]

Derek, I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for. The repeatability of the HF is probably iffy. I'm sure the .001" would be fine for woodworking, but I'd prefer a .0005". I'm not sure if you're looking at a dial indicator or a dial test indicator so I'm not sure I understand the "reset" feature you're asking about.

Hi Lisa,

Thanks, thats because I don't understand really what I'm doing I was referring to the stopwatch type setup. I assumed that allowed you to "reset" the dial to zero. I'm really just looking for a recommendation on a good model for Jointer setup with appropriate accuracy.

719c1HRl+GL._SL1500_.jpg

The .0005 looks like this

61dW1nn58KL._SL1162_.jpg

They don't indicate that these are dial indicator or dial test, I'm assuming they have different applications.

[Jared Sankovich]

.001" analog is plenty for machine setup. You can easily read to .0005" and better with one. A noga (or clone) indicator stand is nice to have. I have a few in the woodshop.

[Lisa Starr]

Derek,

The first one is a Dial Indicator, the second one is a Dial Test Indicator. You want the Dial Indicator. Zero is set by rotating the outer bezel ring on this type of indicator, no matter what graduations the face has.

[Mark Bolton]

Order #2 for sure. That way you'll be guaranteed from the instant you take it out of the box that every piece of equipment you own will be catastrophically flawed and that you'll never produce a single finished piece to your satisfaction. It may guarantee you never even get to the stage of plugging in your equipment.

Any work you do get to produce you will eternally be disappointed because it, nor do your machines, satisfy that dastardly pointer on the indicator. This will all of course be endlessly interspersed with driving every manufacturer of equipment you purchased absolutely and utterly insane because of said #2 indicator. (These manufacturers will more than likely default to sending a covert, black ops crew, to your shop in the darkest of night to either destroy, damage, or internally re-calibrate your precision .0005" indicating equipment in an effort to stop your endless calls and protect their livelihoods from bankruptcy).

I would advise hiding all your ultra precision test equipment in a high security location to keep it away from the black ops, and hopefully make it as hard as possible on yourself to access said equipment.

You can read endless tests on-line and youtube with regards to Mitutoyo, all the way down to Horror Freight or worse. Its not to say the Mitutoyo and its equals are not the creme'de la creme' but they are far from necessary for most anything in this world. I have a few nice Starrett and Brown and Sharpe indicators and mic's and a couple pairs of Mitutoyo calipers I have landed on for pennies at auctions but they are used in the wood shop on rare occasion. I keep a half dozen pairs of inexpensive dial caliper and digital calipers scattered around the shop to make regular measures. Several indicators on mag bases. None of the shop dial indicators are anything remotely close to the mitutoyos.

You can read tenths pretty well on a .001 indicator even an el-cheapo. The point is, if you let yourself into that rabbit hole, you may as well just stay in bed.

[Dan Friedrichs]

That was hilarious, Mark

[roger wiegand]

My digital Mitutoyo indicator has had its battery changed only once in the 15 years I've had it. Unlike some of the cheap digital calipers I have (the $15 ones) that eat batteries regularly the dial indicator seems to last forever. If you find analog easier to use of course you should go that way.

Budget for a good, sturdy magnetic base. That may be more important than the indicator you choose.

[derek labian]

For anyone else referencing this thread:

Screen Shot 2022-01-17 at 12.38.53 PM.png

[Michael Drew]

My other "hobby", beside woodworking is engine building. Race applications. I have a need for instruments that read in tenths, so that's what I buy. I am old school, and prefer clocks, so I do not have any digital devices, although - as my eye sight continues to degrade, digital is starting to apeal to me.

I prefer Mitutoyo and Starett devices. I have some older Brown and Sharp, as well, but newer stuff isn't as nice.

These are nice dials. I have several. You can get others that read in half thou that are a bit less exspensive. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SG7PJI...v_ov_lig_dp_it

[Charles Coolidge]

Mitutoyo superfan here. Let's start with the two styles you posted.

#1 - is a "dial drop indicator". It has a spring loaded indicator rod that moves up/down. These typically have a LOT more travel than a test indicator, 1-2 inches is common. As such the accuracy is typically less than a test indicator .001 even .002 for longer travel indicators. That stop watch looking knob does not set or zero the indicator. It's actually just a clamp for the bezel. Typically you position your indicator onto the part you are measuring, loading the indicator say with .1 inch of travel. Now the spring is holding the indicator onto the part. You then spin the bezel around moving the "0" to align with the needle and you call that zero. If you were measuring say plus and minus on the object you are measuring using a 1 inch dial drop indicator you could push the indicator into the part .5 inch, turn the bezel to zero, then you have plus and minus .5 inch of travel to measure. Some also have a 2nd smaller inner dial that counts 10th's of an inch like my Mitutoyo 2416S-10 dial drop indicator. The needle on this 1 inch dial drop indicator spins around 10 times .100 inch with each rotation giving a total of 1 inch of travel. The smaller inner dial keeps track of the number of .1 inch rotations. https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-Dial.../dp/B00WMLI72S

#2 - is a "dial test indicator". The actuator on these moves side to side vs up and down for the drop indicator. So you would position the indictor up against the side of the part you are measuring. Sometimes when using these you need the arm to reach out, under For example up against the side of a table saw arbor to measure the run out of the arbor while turning it. The total length of travel is typically much shorter and with high accuracy tolerance, .0001 or even greater. So table saw arbors, drill press arbors, shafts where you want sub .001 accuracy. EDIT: Note while the total travel may only be .030 inch you can move the indicator arm back and forth about .600 inch total distance. This is to aid in positioning the indicator where the body of the indicator might be getting in the way. You might push the arm forward say .4 inches, from there you have your .030 inch of dial travel. Unlike the drop indicator the test indicators can reach in and around things.

For both they come in a dizzying array of models, total travel, accuracy, and something to pay close attention to how they attach to the magnetic base. I prefer Noga magnetic base indicator holders. Some indicators come with a dovetail on the back and the Noga base accommodates those. Some come with a lug back, basically a U shaped lug with a hole in it and they screw onto the indicator holder. The woodworking A-Line-It holder for example to test table saw blade runout, parallel with miter slot, etc. note that jig requires an indicator with a lug see this photo back https://www.woodcraft.com/products/a-line-it-basic-kit

As for Mitutoyo battery life as someone above mentioned, battery life is in years they last forever dang near in Mitutoyo measuring tools. My Mitutoyo digital calipers must be coming up on 18 years old, I have changed the batter twice.

[Patrick McCarthy]

What is your problem exactly?

Derek,
I think Mark is sensitive tot he fact some of us tend to get "analysis paralysis" and go down the proverbial rabbit hole on the possibilities which, although worthy of consideration, can effectively stop forward progress in actually making anything. I may have veered into that trap on occasion, but a tight fitting joint is more from experience doing it and getting used to the actual things that influence the end result . . . such as cutting to the knife line, sawing at the correct angle, using a bench hook or other jigs, etc. Accurate measurements are important, equipment set-up is important, but there is a balance which is sometimes elusive. My tools are all pretty darn good, but there are many people on this forum who can make better furniture than me, and many with "lesser" tools. The difference is that they have done it so much that they see the big picture of how it all fits together in the "real world." Another consideration that comes into it is moisture content, seasonal movement, etc., . . . . once we play with those, the accuracy to 0.001 seems a bit pointless. Bottom-line, i think Mark was just trying to encourage you to start making sawdust. Best, Patrick

[Mark Bolton]

but a tight fitting joint is more from experience doing it and getting used to the actual things that influence the end result . . . such as cutting to the knife line, sawing at the correct angle, using a bench hook or other jigs, etc

Or maybe just gob a whole bunch more glue on and sand in a pile of sawdust while the glue is still wet().

Well written.

[derek labian]

Derek,
I think Mark is sensitive tot he fact some of us tend to get "analysis paralysis" and go down the proverbial rabbit hole on the possibilities which, although worthy of consideration, can effectively stop forward progress in actually making anything. I may have veered into that trap on occasion, but a tight fitting joint is more from experience doing it and getting used to the actual things that influence the end result . . . such as cutting to the knife line, sawing at the correct angle, using a bench hook or other jigs, etc. Accurate measurements are important, equipment set-up is important, but there is a balance which is sometimes elusive. My tools are all pretty darn good, but there are many people on this forum who can make better furniture than me, and many with "lesser" tools. The difference is that they have done it so much that they see the big picture of how it all fits together in the "real world." Another consideration that comes into it is moisture content, seasonal movement, etc., . . . . once we play with those, the accuracy to 0.001 seems a bit pointless. Bottom-line, i think Mark was just trying to encourage you to start making sawdust. Best, Patrick

Hi Patrick,

I agree with everything you said with one caveat. The point here is that Mark has no real idea what I'm doing. I am "making stuff", and I was in the middle of a project when I started trying to determine if I had a technique issue on this new equipment or a setup issue. If you read that other thread, a lot of users suggested I buy a longer/better strait edge, so I did. If I'm going to buy tools for a second or third time, I'd like to buy a lifetime tool. Thats just my personal preference. Again to your point, I never did stop working on my project.

I'd further add that Mark's sarcasm goes a bit over the top. For example:

"The relationship of fixed tables to cutter head to moving table." or "Its clear from your posts that you honestly really dont have a concept about how this equipment "works""

Not only is he just rude and incorrect, but its not helpful. For someone like me who isn't doing this for a living and doesn't have 20 years of experience, I could read everything I can find on jointer setup, do it perfectly, and if I switch machines in a couple of years, I'm going to have to do it again. The breadth of things to learn is just broad and repetition breads familiarity. He doesn't seem to understand this.

A common thread from Mark seems to be "hobbyist"'s ruining vendors for "everyone else" by harassing them endlessly. This must be more about him projecting his ideas about what's happening as I've only called tech support (for any equipment) once in two years because its generally not helpful. I don't fault anyone for calling tech support.

My tools are all pretty darn good, but there are many people on this forum who can make better furniture than me, and many with "lesser" tools.

I agree, tools are no replacement for skill & experience, and I've seen amazing things created with "pedestrian" tools. I would add to that though, I've found better tools compensates for less skill, and because I'm time restricted, I try to buy better tools to compensate somewhat.

[John K Jordan]

…
Budget for a good, sturdy magnetic base. That may be more important than the indicator you choose.

That’s my philosophy too. I have several magnetic bases of different styles. The quickest to set up is the type with a single clamp knob.

I paid over $100 for this Noga magnetic base about 8 years ago and I’m glad I did. It’s rock-strady, clamps well, and the micro adjust is very smooth.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002K07CTK

Some time later I bought a couple of cheap imitations for about $30:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L5T2ZA8
They are fine for what I bought them for but the Noga is the one I use at the mill and lathe. However, I think either would be fine for woodworking applications. For example I keep one dial indicator at the wood lathe on a cheap magnetic stand for things like aligning turned pieces on a jam chuck. “Close” is good enough and I don’t want the better instruments around the fine wood dust.

As for dial indicators my experience is also "you get what you pay for.” I have Starretts and Brown&Sharp and some cheaper, Grizzly and no-names. The cheaper dial instruments sometimes are not as repeatable. But again, for aligning things like a saw for woodworking applications I don’t see the advantage of a $300 instrument over a much cheaper one.

I’ve never felt a need to use my good dial test indicator in the wood shop.