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Thread: Mitutoyo Dial Indicators Recommenation

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick McCarthy View Post
    but a tight fitting joint is more from experience doing it and getting used to the actual things that influence the end result . . . such as cutting to the knife line, sawing at the correct angle, using a bench hook or other jigs, etc
    Or maybe just gob a whole bunch more glue on and sand in a pile of sawdust while the glue is still wet().

    Well written.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick McCarthy View Post
    Derek,
    I think Mark is sensitive tot he fact some of us tend to get "analysis paralysis" and go down the proverbial rabbit hole on the possibilities which, although worthy of consideration, can effectively stop forward progress in actually making anything. I may have veered into that trap on occasion, but a tight fitting joint is more from experience doing it and getting used to the actual things that influence the end result . . . such as cutting to the knife line, sawing at the correct angle, using a bench hook or other jigs, etc. Accurate measurements are important, equipment set-up is important, but there is a balance which is sometimes elusive. My tools are all pretty darn good, but there are many people on this forum who can make better furniture than me, and many with "lesser" tools. The difference is that they have done it so much that they see the big picture of how it all fits together in the "real world." Another consideration that comes into it is moisture content, seasonal movement, etc., . . . . once we play with those, the accuracy to 0.001 seems a bit pointless. Bottom-line, i think Mark was just trying to encourage you to start making sawdust. Best, Patrick
    Hi Patrick,

    I agree with everything you said with one caveat. The point here is that Mark has no real idea what I'm doing. I am "making stuff", and I was in the middle of a project when I started trying to determine if I had a technique issue on this new equipment or a setup issue. If you read that other thread, a lot of users suggested I buy a longer/better strait edge, so I did. If I'm going to buy tools for a second or third time, I'd like to buy a lifetime tool. Thats just my personal preference. Again to your point, I never did stop working on my project.

    I'd further add that Mark's sarcasm goes a bit over the top. For example:

    "The relationship of fixed tables to cutter head to moving table." or "Its clear from your posts that you honestly really dont have a concept about how this equipment "works""

    Not only is he just rude and incorrect, but its not helpful. For someone like me who isn't doing this for a living and doesn't have 20 years of experience, I could read everything I can find on jointer setup, do it perfectly, and if I switch machines in a couple of years, I'm going to have to do it again. The breadth of things to learn is just broad and repetition breads familiarity. He doesn't seem to understand this.

    A common thread from Mark seems to be "hobbyist"'s ruining vendors for "everyone else" by harassing them endlessly. This must be more about him projecting his ideas about what's happening as I've only called tech support (for any equipment) once in two years because its generally not helpful. I don't fault anyone for calling tech support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick McCarthy View Post
    My tools are all pretty darn good, but there are many people on this forum who can make better furniture than me, and many with "lesser" tools.
    I agree, tools are no replacement for skill & experience, and I've seen amazing things created with "pedestrian" tools. I would add to that though, I've found better tools compensates for less skill, and because I'm time restricted, I try to buy better tools to compensate somewhat.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    Or maybe just gob a whole bunch more glue on and sand in a pile of sawdust while the glue is still wet().

    Well written.
    I would never put glue on my sawdust, its imported from Europe and made from only the finest timber.

  4. #19
    Join Date
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    A mushroom tip is nice for setting knives etc. Beware Mitutoyo makes nothing in China. All the Mitutoyos on ebay from China are fakes.
    Bill D.

    Federal, fowler, intrepid, hellios and B+S made some nice meterology gear.

    http://www.longislandindicator.com/p14.html
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 01-17-2022 at 4:32 PM.

  5. Mitutoyo superfan here. Let's start with the two styles you posted.

    #1 - is a "dial drop indicator". It has a spring loaded indicator rod that moves up/down. These typically have a LOT more travel than a test indicator, 1-2 inches is common. As such the accuracy is typically less than a test indicator .001 even .002 for longer travel indicators. That stop watch looking knob does not set or zero the indicator. It's actually just a clamp for the bezel. Typically you position your indicator onto the part you are measuring, loading the indicator say with .1 inch of travel. Now the spring is holding the indicator onto the part. You then spin the bezel around moving the "0" to align with the needle and you call that zero. If you were measuring say plus and minus on the object you are measuring using a 1 inch dial drop indicator you could push the indicator into the part .5 inch, turn the bezel to zero, then you have plus and minus .5 inch of travel to measure. Some also have a 2nd smaller inner dial that counts 10th's of an inch like my Mitutoyo 2416S-10 dial drop indicator. The needle on this 1 inch dial drop indicator spins around 10 times .100 inch with each rotation giving a total of 1 inch of travel. The smaller inner dial keeps track of the number of .1 inch rotations. https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-Dial.../dp/B00WMLI72S

    #2 - is a "dial test indicator". The actuator on these moves side to side vs up and down for the drop indicator. So you would position the indictor up against the side of the part you are measuring. Sometimes when using these you need the arm to reach out, under For example up against the side of a table saw arbor to measure the run out of the arbor while turning it. The total length of travel is typically much shorter and with high accuracy tolerance, .0001 or even greater. So table saw arbors, drill press arbors, shafts where you want sub .001 accuracy. EDIT: Note while the total travel may only be .030 inch you can move the indicator arm back and forth about .600 inch total distance. This is to aid in positioning the indicator where the body of the indicator might be getting in the way. You might push the arm forward say .4 inches, from there you have your .030 inch of dial travel. Unlike the drop indicator the test indicators can reach in and around things.

    For both they come in a dizzying array of models, total travel, accuracy, and something to pay close attention to how they attach to the magnetic base. I prefer Noga magnetic base indicator holders. Some indicators come with a dovetail on the back and the Noga base accommodates those. Some come with a lug back, basically a U shaped lug with a hole in it and they screw onto the indicator holder. The woodworking A-Line-It holder for example to test table saw blade runout, parallel with miter slot, etc. note that jig requires an indicator with a lug see this photo back https://www.woodcraft.com/products/a-line-it-basic-kit

    As for Mitutoyo battery life as someone above mentioned, battery life is in years they last forever dang near in Mitutoyo measuring tools. My Mitutoyo digital calipers must be coming up on 18 years old, I have changed the batter twice.
    Last edited by Charles Coolidge; 01-17-2022 at 5:07 PM.

  6. #21
    I think if you publicly advertise setting new forum records for volume of money spent on workshop/equipment to bf processed into finished work, while fail diagnosing one of the top $$ machines you can buy, it’s no surprise the grizzled vets will come out to feast on red meat.

    Imagine buying XYZ classic car for a boatload of money, not knowing how to drive stick shift and grinding gears at the car meet as the new guy. There is no hobby / activity where being clueless, highly visible, big spending new money guy goes over well.

    If I had that kind of money I would absolutely spend it on one of those six month furniture building classes at the top schools.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Beware Mitutoyo makes nothing in China. All the Mitutoyos on ebay from China are fakes.
    ^^^ KABOOM!! Mitutoyo Japan is trying to combat those scumbags in CHINA counterfeiting their products. If you are going to purchase Mitutoyo make sure you purchase from a reputable retailer. And I would AVOID high volume retailers because another scam is people purchase the genuine test indicator, then drop in the counterfeit and return it. Big volume retailers don't really inspect if someone is returning a fake.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast, Australia
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    151
    Hey Derek…

    When Igrew up in an automotive town the most revered skilled trades were the millwrights who would maintain and adjust the machines used in manufacture and assembly. That’s what we all have to try to be, on a small scale, when we have to maintain and adjust our little home furniture factories.

    It takes some time to learn this stuff.

    Get two dial indicators, and another stand. Noga makes a beautiful articulated stand that avoids the frustrations of Chinese magnetic base stands that can be pretty floppy. Etalon (Hexagon Metrology…sometimes labelled Tesa or Interapid) makes an even better one, but I don’t know if you can still get them.

    You might want to get some feeler gauges if you don’t already have some.They can be handy for a quick assessment of many things that are supposed to be straight and colinear but often aren’t. Fences come to mind.

    I will check my copy of Machine Tool Reconditioning…it has some woodworking machines tuning in the last chapter.

    On edit: nope. Must have been some other old book I was thinking of.

    Good luck

    Greg
    Last edited by Greg Quenneville; 01-17-2022 at 5:48 PM.

  9. #24
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    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Appropriate quality

    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post

    Budget for a good, sturdy magnetic base. That may be more important than the indicator you choose.
    That’s my philosophy too. I have several magnetic bases of different styles. The quickest to set up is the type with a single clamp knob.

    I paid over $100 for this Noga magnetic base about 8 years ago and I’m glad I did. It’s rock-strady, clamps well, and the micro adjust is very smooth.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002K07CTK

    Some time later I bought a couple of cheap imitations for about $30:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L5T2ZA8
    They are fine for what I bought them for but the Noga is the one I use at the mill and lathe. However, I think either would be fine for woodworking applications. For example I keep one dial indicator at the wood lathe on a cheap magnetic stand for things like aligning turned pieces on a jam chuck. “Close” is good enough and I don’t want the better instruments around the fine wood dust.

    As for dial indicators my experience is also "you get what you pay for.” I have Starretts and Brown&Sharp and some cheaper, Grizzly and no-names. The cheaper dial instruments sometimes are not as repeatable. But again, for aligning things like a saw for woodworking applications I don’t see the advantage of a $300 instrument over a much cheaper one.

    I’ve never felt a need to use my good dial test indicator in the wood shop.

  10. #25
    I use the dial a fair bit. Mitutoyo it reads to .0005 but you can see finer, .00025 easily as its a needle and not digital.

    It and the caliper both likely 40 years on them. They have seen a photo of my caliper as the email was sent with a compliment. Like my Panasonic FZ28 beat to snot for years. The watch took a licking but kept on ticking. If you can put up with me you make good products. I think batteries last 3-4 years and that includes all the times I found it been on sometimes for days from pressure in the tool belt.



    afd.jpg


    Knife projection here is .112 above the head but you can clearly see its not. increments are .0005 resolution but even in this low rez screen save from the video you can see 2/3 of .0005 so you can get great resolution from these. THe draw back is im in a freezing cold garage, I have not cleaned the stem in years, Im striking the knife when I enter into it from the side of the convex tip and the biggest draw back is my clamp base is just not good enough to measure these finer levels. If I zero on the head and go forward it reads over zero, if go back wards it goes under zero so there is some amount of movement in the magnetic base and arms. Still its splitting hairs.

    I am measuring a machine someone else set up, never seen a machine worse in my life. The cutting circle will be junk and cant see how any of the rollers or pressure bars below can be set up to make it work

    Capture.JPG
    Last edited by Warren Lake; 01-17-2022 at 10:00 PM.

  11. #26
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    Nov 2009
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    Alaska
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    The Noga mag bases are great, provided you can find something to stick them too.....

    I thought the OP was about indicators, now it's calipers, or insturments and whether they belong in a woodshop in general?

    Man, some people sure get cranky over the simplest things. Who cares if someone wants to spend a couple Benjamins on a dial. It's not like it's your money.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast, Australia
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    On the counterfeit note, when I purchased new indicators I bought from Long Island Indicator. Their website is worth a visit for detailed, chatty information on their stock. They are serious people who have been in business for 70+ years. I have also used their repair service and was very pleased. Zero worries about counterfeits or returns when you buy from them.

    I did have a Mitutoyo dealer local to me, but they didn’t want to know about retail customers.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    Coquitlam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes View Post
    I don’t like the super cheap dial indicators they are too twitchy. I have several from China that came with other stuff.
    I have a indicator from this company https://www.shars.com/products/measu...ial-indicators. They are pretty darn good.
    It still like my federal the best it’s so smooth.
    Not a model recommendation but a purchase tip.

    I bought a Mitutoyo dial indicator (0.0005") for $37 in 2018. Search Mitutoyo on Amazon. Select Amazon as seller in filters. Then sort low to high. Dial indicators seem like a slow moving product and pop up at low price often. Bought a few rules similarly. YMMV.

    Edit:

    Did a search. My results may be restricted given shipping destination is set to Canada.

    Mitutoyo 2046S: $44. This is is mm but "generally" should not matter is testing variance.

    Mitutoyo 2976TB: $39. 0.001" model.

    Mitutoyo 2977TB: $46. 0.0005" model.
    Last edited by Anuj Prateek; 01-18-2022 at 2:52 AM.

  14. #29
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    Only stand I really like is the Starrett flex-o-post.

    I’d pickup a few precision tools, they’re endlessly handy. Mark is right in that you will drive yourself a bit nuts with this stuff until you start to get a good feel for it, but I would still own them since they have so many uses.

    Mitutoyo is great, not terribly expensive but very good. You can spend a lot more if you so desire, but Mitutoyo usually fits the bill. Interapid is a common choice for test indicators and if you have a desire to have the über quality then Mahr and Tesa.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 01-18-2022 at 11:48 AM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  15. #30
    Join Date
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    ...
    Mitutoyo is great, not terribly expensive but very good. You can spend a lot more if you so desire, but Mitutoyo usually fits the bill. Interapid is a common choice for test indicators and if you have a desire to have the über quality then Mahr and Tesa.
    I started wondering about Mitutoyo after reading this thread:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....nese-Knock-Off

    Any thoughts on that?

    JKJ

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