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Thread: Advice on sagging Jointer table (MM FS41ES)

  1. #61
    I had trouble with my 8" Jet after I got it on longer boards. I was pretty sure it wasn't a set up issue as I had checked it pretty thoroughly when I assembled it.

    I eventually figured out it was a technique issue on my part, something about how I was switching hands in the middle of the cut. I didn't have the same problem with my 6" Jet, probably because I never tried to do boards that long on it. I'm glad it was me and not the jointer; it was a lot easier to fix my technique than the jointer

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    I received the Starrett strait edge. It's much heavier than I expected as someone mentioned at that length. I compared my Woodpecker 36" I used at the beginning of the test. The Woodpecker is off by a solid .010 at the far end thus invalidating my readings. I hadn't really expected that to be possible with the tolerances on the website and the fact that it had no damage. For the few of you that pointed out I needed a more reliable strait edge before deciding the unit was out of plane, thank you. The in-feed is not out of plane.



    Isn't that the truth.
    I experienced something similar. When I checked the aluminum straight edge from Lee Valley it looked like a noodle sitting on top of my precision straight edge.
    The difference between a good jointer and a great one is very small. Most of the time I sit in a chair in front of my machine and face boards.
    Only when they really long or horribly twisted do I need to stand up and pay attention to where I start my flat area.
    I keep very sharp blades at all time in my machine and enjoy the process of setting news ones.
    My experience is the outfeed height to the top of the cutting circle is the key in a jointer.
    Good Luck Derek
    Aj

  3. Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    I received the Starrett strait edge. It's much heavier than I expected as someone mentioned at that length. I compared my Woodpecker 36" I used at the beginning of the test. The Woodpecker is off by a solid .010 at the far end thus invalidating my readings. I hadn't really expected that to be possible with the tolerances on the website and the fact that it had no damage. For the few of you that pointed out I needed a more reliable strait edge before deciding the unit was out of plane, thank you. The in-feed is not out of plane.



    Isn't that the truth.
    That's great news Derek, you have it on the run now!

  4. #64
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    A strait is a narrow strip of land between two bodies of water, a strait is also a word that refers to a difficult situation.

    Glad to hear that the Starrett straight edge resolved the issue. This is certainly one of the reasons that aluminum straight edges are not reliable and the reason why I believe in verifying quality of a straight edge before I use it for anything critical.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    A strait is a narrow strip of land between two bodies of water, a strait is also a word that refers to a difficult situation.

    Glad to hear that the Starrett straight edge resolved the issue. This is certainly one of the reasons that aluminum straight edges are not reliable and the reason why I believe in verifying quality of a straight edge before I use it for anything critical.
    Hah yes, rather embarrassing. I keep correcting myself but I tend to type phonetically, especially when in a hurry. It is hard not to hold poor spelling or grammar against someone, so thank you for your indulgence.
    Last edited by derek labian; 01-22-2022 at 9:24 AM.

  6. #66
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    If you ever do need to adjust the tables, more indicators make the process faster. Ideally would have one indicator on each corner
    Screenshot_20220122-103102_Gallery.jpg

  7. #67
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    I don't understand what all of the dial indicators are needed for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sankovich View Post
    If you ever do need to adjust the tables, more indicators make the process faster. Ideally would have one indicator on each corner
    Screenshot_20220122-103102_Gallery.jpg

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    I don't understand what all of the dial indicators are needed for?
    The middle one is just stuck there not doing anything. The 90 degree block is just weight in that setup. I use it to set infeed height referenced against the knives like a one way gauge.

    As you know adjusting one corner on that setup moves the other 3. Indicating 2 or more at once makes the process quicker
    Last edited by Jared Sankovich; 01-22-2022 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #69
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    I have dial and digital indicators, test indicators, 80lb 72" camelback scraped straight edges and a 6000lb 4' x 8' x14" surface plate , And I have never used any of them to setup or check my jointer. I use them for metalwork, they are recent acquisitions, I built a lot of furniture before I ever got them

    All that you need to check a jointer is a verified straightedge, and that could be a piece of wood.

    Check and verify that the individual tables are flat first. ( you need five reference points, the four corners and the center)
    Then check that the tables are co-planer.
    Then check that the tables and cutterhead are aligned ( cutterhead axis is parallel to the table)
    check you knife protrusion.
    set your infeed and outfeed table heights.
    dress a stick and make any fine adjustments on the outfeed table to TDC of the cutting circle.
    Joint a few pieces of wood, check for fit, adjust either the outfeed height or you technic to make fine adjustments to the results.

    I have done precision woodworking for 50 years
    Woodworking is not difficult, people make it difficult, they overcomplicate, or the overlook the basic concepts. If you miss the basics everything will be complicated and no amount of tools will make it easier.

    My suggestions is to learn to do things without measuring tools. Learn to check flat, straight and square etc without tools, set up your jointer by dressing wood and reading what are the problems, if its the jointer or you. Check that your joiner fence is square, by dressing a couple of pieces of 1x6 placing the dressed edges on the jointer table, back to back, then flip one around, what does it tell you? Check the knife protrusion from the cutterhead with a stick, a pencil mark, check the outfeed table to top dead center with the same stick. Check you tablesaw the same way, the mitre slot to the saw, with a stick, the blade perpendicularity to the table, with a stick, the miter fence perpendicularity the the saw... with a stick. All of this is more accurate then measuring. Don't measure anything that you don't have to. I don't use a tape measure or a ruler, I use a story stick and transfer knife-lines. I sincerely doubt that anyone using expensive metrology equipment can get anything more accurate than me using a couple of sticks. My point, is learn the principles, understand the relationships, and how to check and reference things.



    If you understand the relationships, for most things you wont need to measure anything. I you don't understand, then you have to trust your tools, and without being able to check and verify them, you will be working on blind faith, and that's not how I like to work. I prefer to know.


    The basics are the foundation.

    You need to understand wood, cell structure and moisture exchange, movement and strength, so that you can design properly and avoid all of the big mistakes that come from not knowing.
    You need to understand referencing and relationships to be able to accurately set up you tools and machines, to set up your process and to be able to avoid cumulative errors.
    You need a little bit of knowledge and the rest is project management.

    Just my opinion, everyone has their own way of doing things.


    SAM_1678.jpgAttachment 472117 1-My-Pictures0010-768x512.jpg

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    I have dial and digital indicators, test indicators, 80lb 72" camelback scraped straight edges and a 6000lb 4' x 8' x14" surface plate , And I have never used any of them to setup or check my jointer. I use them for metalwork, they are recent acquisitions, I built a lot of furniture before I ever got them

    All that you need to check a jointer is a verified straightedge, and that could be a piece of wood.

    Check and verify that the individual tables are flat first. ( you need five reference points, the four corners and the center)
    Then check that the tables are co-planer.
    Then check that the tables and cutterhead are aligned ( cutterhead axis is parallel to the table)
    check you knife protrusion.
    set your infeed and outfeed table heights.
    dress a stick and make any fine adjustments on the outfeed table to TDC of the cutting circle.
    Joint a few pieces of wood, check for fit, adjust either the outfeed height or you technic to make fine adjustments to the results.

    I have done precision woodworking for 50 years
    Woodworking is not difficult, people make it difficult, they overcomplicate, or the overlook the basic concepts. If you miss the basics everything will be complicated and no amount of tools will make it easier.

    My suggestions is to learn to do things without measuring tools. Learn to check flat, straight and square etc without tools, set up your jointer by dressing wood and reading what are the problems, if its the jointer or you. Check that your joiner fence is square, by dressing a couple of pieces of 1x6 placing the dressed edges on the jointer table, back to back, then flip one around, what does it tell you? Check the knife protrusion from the cutterhead with a stick, a pencil mark, check the outfeed table to top dead center with the same stick. Check you tablesaw the same way, the mitre slot to the saw, with a stick, the blade perpendicularity to the table, with a stick, the miter fence perpendicularity the the saw... with a stick. All of this is more accurate then measuring. Don't measure anything that you don't have to. I don't use a tape measure or a ruler, I use a story stick and transfer knife-lines. I sincerely doubt that anyone using expensive metrology equipment can get anything more accurate than me using a couple of sticks. My point, is learn the principles, understand the relationships, and how to check and reference things.



    If you understand the relationships, for most things you wont need to measure anything. I you don't understand, then you have to trust your tools, and without being able to check and verify them, you will be working on blind faith, and that's not how I like to work. I prefer to know.


    The basics are the foundation.

    You need to understand wood, cell structure and moisture exchange, movement and strength, so that you can design properly and avoid all of the big mistakes that come from not knowing.
    You need to understand referencing and relationships to be able to accurately set up you tools and machines, to set up your process and to be able to avoid cumulative errors.
    You need a little bit of knowledge and the rest is project management.

    Just my opinion, everyone has their own way of doing things.


    SAM_1678.jpgAttachment 472117 1-My-Pictures0010-768x512.jpg

    You can certainly do it with a straight stick. It just takes longer if you are starting from a unknown setup imho. I don't typically bother setting the outfeed height with anything more than a straight edge. If suddenly I'm getting odd results and the straight edge confirms issues. I'll break out real measuring tools and adjust.

    Sort of like lacing and truing a spoked wheel. People do it all the time with a pointer and a stand and no actual measuring tools. 3 indicators make it a fast and simple process.

    Edit

    What I'm trying to say is that setup doesn't need to be a iterative process if you can see all the variables in real time.
    Last edited by Jared Sankovich; 01-22-2022 at 12:44 PM.

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