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Thread: Metal clearvue vs Oneida 5hp

  1. #1
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    Metal clearvue vs Oneida 5hp

    I couldn't find much on this. I'm am planing on upgrading my dust collector in the next year or so. I have pretty much narrowed it down to the metal version of the clearvue or one of the 2 5hp options from Oneida. What im wondering is which will do better. My main concern is suction I will have some runs that are close to 70ft long. I see the Oneida has a high vacuum option. Is this option better or should I be looking are cfm? The cfm between these is hard for me to understand since they are all have a seemingly different pressure rating.

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    Mitch, I think the high vacuum version is for CNC

  3. #3
    Can't help with comparisons, but I have the EF-5 (assume that's your Metal Clearvue) thru ~30ft of 6" and it will suck the chrome off a ... uhm, never mind. It works good!

  4. #4
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    The "high vacuum" verison of the Oneida is a smart system that adapts to changing static pressure that comes from applications that may have smaller ports and other demands. CNC, as mentioned is one of those applications.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    The "high vacuum" verison of the Oneida is a smart system that adapts to changing static pressure that comes from applications that may have smaller ports and other demands. CNC, as mentioned is one of those applications.
    I got a VFD to run my 5hp/3ph DC, mostly to mitigate the inrush current, but most VFDs these days also include a internal PID loop as standard. If I ever need to connect small tool ports, it is easy to setup the VFD for PID control - using the motor amps as the (input) process variable and the motor speed as the control variable (output). The setpoint for this is the FLA of the motor. Just set the max allowed speed to ~80-90Hz, and if only a small port is connected, air flow is starved, the motor amps drop, and the PID controller will increase the speed ('over-speed', up to the max allowed) to get the amps back to FLA (::rated Hp of the motor). If you throw a 6" port open, VFD controller will slow the motor - again to keep the amps at motor's FLA.

    Roll-your-own 'Smart' DC.
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 01-15-2022 at 4:57 PM. Reason: typo, clarity

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    My understanding at least from the website the Oneida dust gorrlia has the smart boost feature as they call it. It doesn't appear the high vacuum has this feature. I'm not sure if this is a option for the clearvue.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    Can't help with comparisons, but I have the EF-5 (assume that's your Metal Clearvue) thru ~30ft of 6" and it will suck the chrome off a ... uhm, never mind. It works good!
    This is the model I am considering. Is there any reason you chose this in particular comparedto other brands? Did you look at the Oneida at all when you were shopping around?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch schiffer View Post
    This is the model I am considering. Is there any reason you chose this in particular comparedto other brands? Did you look at the Oneida at all when you were shopping around?
    I over analyzed my decision to death, including Oneida, and after 3 coin flips and a palm reading, I simply bought the one with the Pentz name. I could have easily been talked into the PETG version, but I am just young enough to think the metal will better last my lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    I over analyzed my decision to death, including Oneida, and after 3 coin flips and a palm reading, I simply bought the one with the Pentz name. I could have easily been talked into the PETG version, but I am just young enough to think the metal will better last my lifetime.
    Is there anything you particularly really like or don't like about yours? Did you go with the 30 or 40 gallon bin?

  10. #10
    I bought the Oneida 5hp Smart Gorilla. I am still installing it so I cannot offer a personal experience on how well it performs. Malcolm’s discussion of the “smarts” of the VFD controller is exactly what I would guess about the way it works. I designed controls for nuclear reactors in my working life. While Oneida does not cite Bill Pentz or put his name on their Gorilla, they have clearly been reading his well-posed arguments for more CFM to reduce fine particulate. Pentz recommends 800 CFM for most tools. This is clearly justified if you monitor particulate levels in your shop and know what level makes you cough. The problem is that the tools themselves have 4 inch ports which is really hard to get 800 CFM through using a conventional synchronous 3450 RPM motor and impeller. Pentz’s recommendation is increasing main duct size to 8” and increasing port size to 6” which varies between hard and impossible to do depending on the tool and is always ugly. The alternative which Oneida pursued is increasing RPM with a VFD. This works by increasing pressure across duct so that it delivers 900 CFM through 4” ports. It turns out to be cheaper too. The downside is noise. Not so much at the blower and impeller, but turbulence at the tool generates an impressive roar. So instead of upgrading your dust mask, you upgrade your hearing protection. I came down on the Oneida side of the trade-off. The machines were already loud.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    I got a VFD to run my 5hp/3ph DC, mostly to mitigate the inrush current, but most VFDs these days also include a internal PID loop as standard. If I ever need to connect small tool ports, it is easy to setup the VFD for PID control - using the motor amps as the (input) process variable and the motor speed as the control variable (output). The setpoint for this is the FLA of the motor. Just set the max allowed speed to ~80-90Hz, and if only a small port is connected, air flow is starved, the motor amps drop, and the PID controller will increase the speed ('over-speed', up to the max allowed) to get the amps back to FLA (::rated Hp of the motor). If you throw a 6" port open, VFD controller will slow the motor - again to keep the amps at motor's FLA.

    Roll-your-own 'Smart' DC.
    I would not buy a single phase dust extractor for a bet, it is an archaic and limited idea and should be done away with seeing we have cheap VFD's now available. I run my CV 1800 at 70hz and it rocks, has soft start and low current start requirements and if I choose to I can slow it down if needed. In Oz every CV I have sold or know of except for two is run by a VFD and adding remote control is a simple 5 minute exercise. Want to run an automatic blast gate system? then a VFD is your friend.

    As for 90hz, would a normal three phase motor be happy at that speed? I limit to 70 hz after chatting to Bill Pentz and seeing two episodes of solid objects getting into the impeller housing and the damage caused. One only needed the wrapper around the impeller repaired and one had severe impeller damage and it was this possibility that caused BP to caution about going above 70hz. Another thing I think will be pertinent to impeller speed is what speed does the impeller efficiency fall off at.

    The CV Max was invented to achieve at 50hz in countries outside the US the same airflow as the 1800 achieved at 60hz. That was pre VFD days and today the need might be re-assessed. It only became feasible to sell the CV in Oz because affordable VFD's became available but it took Oneida to recognise the advantages VFD's gave to dust extraction operation.
    Last edited by Chris Parks; 01-15-2022 at 7:16 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch schiffer View Post
    My understanding at least from the website the Oneida dust gorrlia has the smart boost feature as they call it. It doesn't appear the high vacuum has this feature. I'm not sure if this is a option for the clearvue.

    The high vacuum is designed to perform better over a wider SP range. It does include the smart boost feature, too. From the Oneida site:

    Our High-Vacuum systems are designed specifically for use in CNC applications where high amounts of static pressure are needed at the cutter head to adequately collect airborne dust. The unique configuration of our High-Vacuum systems make full use of the high-efficiency U.S. motor and cyclone separator to deliver maximum static pressure to multiple dust ports simultaneously. Combine that with our patented Smart Boost® Technology and you have a dust collector that can deliver twice the airflow using the same horsepower motor!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch schiffer View Post
    Is there anything you particularly really like or don't like about yours? Did you go with the 30 or 40 gallon bin?
    I have 40 gal bin, weight is easily emptied, fits under my ceiling, and all works as advertised. It was a huge step up from the 1hp Delta 'dust distribution' system I used previously. ...Cry once.

    The only sorta dislike is the assembly of the filter stack. It IS dirt simple to put it together with caulk as per instructions, and the instructions even caution you to secure the stack (...brace it to the wall or other structure IIRC). I skipped the secure it part. ("This thing is heavy, I don't need no stinkin' brace.") But I did install it in a storage area - out of sight. While I wasn't looking, the duct feeding the filter stack pushed the stack away, rocking it left & right with the on/off cycles. The bottom caulk failed under the stress and made a bit of a mess by the time I noticed it. I secured it and it is sucking again. I highly recommend following the manual. I use 'dislike' lightly and only because I think there could or should be some form of mechanical fasteners to vertically clamp the filter stack together. I'd have gladly paid another $30 for it while I vacuumed up my mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    ... is increasing RPM with a VFD. This works by increasing pressure across duct so that it delivers 900 CFM through 4” ports. It turns out to be cheaper too. The downside is noise. Not so much at the blower and impeller, but turbulence at the tool generates an impressive roar. ...
    Tool ports are the biggest noise generator for me now since the DC is in the other room. I SWAG'd 80-90hz as max allowed for a 'smart' system, but I would look carefully at the impeller diameter of the chosen system. IF you pursued a higher RPM, you can monitor amp draw via the VFD, to see where it drops off as blades stall. The manufacturer will also have a never-exceed-speed for a given impeller. ...I think I mentioned following the manual's advice?
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 01-15-2022 at 7:52 PM.

  14. #14
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    I have the 5HP Dust Gorilla Pro with the 50 gallon drum, and it works great for me. I looked at the High Vacuum but it was to tall to fit in my space with the 50 gallon drum. It’s quite tall, so might want to check the specs.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    The high vacuum is designed to perform better over a wider SP range. It does include the smart boost feature, too. From the Oneida site:

    Our High-Vacuum systems are designed specifically for use in CNC applications where high amounts of static pressure are needed at the cutter head to adequately collect airborne dust. The unique configuration of our High-Vacuum systems make full use of the high-efficiency U.S. motor and cyclone separator to deliver maximum static pressure to multiple dust ports simultaneously. Combine that with our patented Smart Boost® Technology and you have a dust collector that can deliver twice the airflow using the same horsepower motor!
    Good to know since I don't have a cnc I think that will be out of the running. I didn't look into this model as much as it was lower on the list. Thanks for the info.

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