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Thread: VFD for Old Northfield Jointer Question

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,667
    Just stay away from generic and go with a name brand like Hitachi WJ200 or others. The old direct drive motor will be tough but also expensive to rewind. If speeding up, I'd stay below 70 hz. Keep the braking quite slow unless you add a resistor. Not all vfds allow for that but I'd want that capability. Direct drive jointers can take a long time to coast down and the head is a lot of mass to slow. Give ten seconds a try and see if the vfd faults. Don't get crazy starting and stopping with only the internal resistor.

    Once you get used to three phase you won't like single. Dave

  2. #17
    IMG_1279.jpgIMG_1278.jpg

    For those wanting to see a couple of pictures, here they are.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,185
    Looks great. Especially the table look very clean
    Aj

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
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    7,233
    I can not really endorse the no name ebay VFDs but for under $90. how bad can they be? You do not care about ease of programming or extra features. I did buy one that was dead out of the box. Got a refund because I hooked it up soon enough to complain.
    Bill D

  5. #20
    Nice jointer. You have to love that ship's wheel. My old shop has the lightweight (!) version of that machine - very solid, accurate and dependable. One nice feature was the ability to slide the infeed table away from the head for changing knives. It wasn't an issue, but that design with separate table and gibs would allow for shimming the tables parallel if needed.

    I would agree with David about the braking resistor. Ours had a "Short Stop" brake that would halt the cutterhead in a couple of seconds. I never opened it up but it had a pretty good-sized enclosure. All that energy has to go somewhere.

  6. #21
    I have my 5 HP VFD from Jack programmed to brake and stop the 12” cutterhead in my Oliver 166 in 8 seconds. Ramp up speed is the same and it seems to be ok with that setting for the last several years. Head diameter is right around 5” (x 12”)
    Still waters run deep.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,233
    Some of the cheapy VFD's, mine included, have terminals for an external brake resistor that are not connected to anything. They look good and you would think you have added a brake resister but you have not.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Redmond, OR
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Huang Yang is the generic VFD. It may use a different brand name. Look online for programming instructions.
    Bill D.
    Hang Yang is one of the common generic Chinese VFD's they have worked very well for me. I have a mix of Chinese, Teco, Fuji, Hitachi and Allen Bradley VFD's. For simple phase conversion I have seen no difference between them. I went with a Hitachi WJ for my 13" South Bend metal lathe because I wanted more control... soft start, braking, reverse, variable RPM, jogging, etc. The Hitachi was worth the extra money for that application and being able to program it through a USB cable and laptop instead of through the front panel was a nice feature. For table saws, radial arm saws, jointers, etc. the generic Chinese "Haung Yang" VFD's work very well. Programming for a fixed speed phase conversion is very easy and straight forwards.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    West Michigan
    Posts
    27
    I picked up a similar machine ‘68. Great tool. I found a used rotary phase converter on eBay… some 30amp plugs (single and 3 phase) and cord and it was up and running. I think I have about 200-250 into the converter. From what I gathered the static inverter/Vfd need to be rated near the same HP. The rotary type can be bigger and run multiple machines. There is a “wild” leg that can drift in voltage - don’t want that line going to the on/off switch…

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    6,474
    I’d use a TD200 like Dan mentioned in the first reply. I use its predecessor on my 12” NF LD. I’ve got a build thread on OWWM about my restoration covering the VFD and switch setup.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    I’d use a TD200 like Dan mentioned in the first reply. I use its predecessor on my 12” NF LD. I’ve got a build thread on OWWM about my restoration covering the VFD and switch setup.
    I'll have to try and look at that.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rochester, Minn
    Posts
    189
    To answer your question about programming. You follow the manual. I have 3 TECO VFDs and one cheap Ebay one, and for the latter they definitely skimped on hiring someone who could write an understandable English sentence. I never did get the setup completely right on that one: the edge sander starts/stops but quirky speed control. Did the best guessing I could. The TECO manuals are worlds better.
    From the manual you need to do 3 things: a) enter the motor characteristics into the VFD (full load amps mostly), it uses that to protect the motor should you overload it. b. Tell it what you want for final speed (likely 60 HZ), how fast to ramp up at the start and how fast to brake it at the end. A slower start (4-8 sec) is easier wrt current draw, but for a jointer you don't need to worry too much. Too slow and you may be annoyed by waiting for it. Braking at the end is a function of mass, but again no need to get carried away. It is safer for the machine to stop quickly, but if you stop it too fast the VFD will complain about it (or add a braking resistor). My 26" Moak bandsaw has a foot brake, and I set the VFD to freewheel when I stop, those big wheels are just too much mass for the VFD.
    c. Set the VFD up for 2 wire or 3 wire, making sure of course that what you tell it is the way that you wired it. My dust collector is set up for 2 wire. That means that the +12V terminal on the VFD is connected to the FWD terminal via an ordinary light switch. In fact, I have mine on 2, exactly like the two switches at the top & bottom of the stairs for a light bulb. The problem with that is that if power goes out when you are running it, trip a breaker for instance, it will start up again when power returns. Okay for a dust collector, not safe for a saw. Those are set up with 3 wire + two buttons: start and stop. If power goes out, the machine does not restart. (I'm skipping over forward/reverse, which you don't need).
    Wiring has to be controls to VFD, VFD directly to motor. You can't run the VFD as power that then passes through the on/off buttons of your saw. On my bandsaw I did what many do, which is to repurpose the buttons on the saw so that they go to the VFD control terminals. They are, after all, in a handy spot. A bit overly beefy for a tiny 12V control current, but so what.
    Last, be prepared to skip over 9/10s of the instruction manual. There are a dozen parameters about motor waveforms, the shape of the startup curve, etc. etc. There are 2 or 3 more sophisticated ways to wire the start/stop/revers process into digital control circuits. If you don't recognize it, you probably don't need it.

    Terry T

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Phoenix AZ Area
    Posts
    2,503
    I spent a good bit of time in 2021 with VFDs. I have TECO VFDs on a couple machines from many years ago, and now a couple ABB VFDs. The ABB units seem great. The ones I am using are ABB ACS series. I'm an electrical engineer business guy and in working with an industrial electrician who works daily with VFDs, he strongly recommended ABB.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,233
    To add to Terry's instructions the only only feature you may or may not need to adjust is carrier frequency. If it is off the motor will have a high frequency hum that you can hear. It sounds bad. Not really sure what carrier frequency is but one out of my three vfd's needed to adjusted. It is just a one time adjustment.
    It is recommended to use flex metal conduit to supply power to the motor. Some also suggest a load conditioner after the vfd. These help reduce rf interference of radio signals.
    Bill D
    Bill D

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,224
    On my tablesaw I installed a Teco. Lightning killed it (and my garage door opener). I replaced it with the newer model and fed it thru a DPDT switch in hopes of reducing that hazard.

    The start and stop are set to 1 second which works well with no external resistor.

    There are programming options and contacts to connect to automation and external safeties. You may want to use this to start and stop your dust collection. I have added a foot switch which works out great on a table saw.

    I would not exceed 60 hz, if you run slower you will loose hp and motor cooling. It will quit down around 20 hz but on a jointer that should not matter.

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