Sawstop ICS Problems and Support

[Brian Tymchak]

For those making "vendor" comments I would suggest you remember that Festool owns SawStop. If you really want away from the vendor you have to drop Festool too.

Sorry for the confusion. My vendor comment was referring to the business that sold the gear to Bryan, not the manufacturer.

[Charles Coolidge]

Sawstop did offer to send their "next available saw" over for a swap, but wanted me to pay for it up front and then I'd get a refund after returning the bad one.

LMAO yeah WRONG! Instead, I'll take ALL my money back now and you come fetch your DEFECT product and you eat it! Nicely done Bryan (applause)

[Alan Lightstone]

Sorry for the confusion. My vendor comment was referring to the business that sold the gear to Bryan, not the manufacturer.

As was mine.

[Thomas Pender]

This is one of the most informative threads I have ever read - almost a comedy of errors by Sawstop and your Vendor. I hope it turns out whew can all recall the lessons learned, chief among them being use the credit card as a weapon and never pay for anything except with a credit card.

One thing that surprises me is that someone at Sawstop didn’t pick up the negativity that was being generated on our site - Sawmill Creek, to put it mildly, is about the best site there is for woodworkers of all kinds. For example, we all know Grizzly’s boss either follows or has someone follow this site and he reacts. In terms of negative publicity, Sawstop should have shipped a new saw or gotten a serious manager involved.

In truth, my own Sawstop (3hp PCS with 52” table) has been a joy. I find it cuts better glue edges using my Tenryu blade than I can get with my Grizzly 8” helical jointer (which is a disappointment - I went through some difficulty with them getting the fence mechanism fixed, but they sent the parts that seem to have done the trick). If I had to speculate, I would say the problems they were faced with here were so unusual Sawstop did not know how to behave - not an excuse BTW. Regardless, I would have elevated beyond the tech who treated me with so little respect. As for them not taking the saw back, that is pure nonsense. Legally, a buyer relies upon the saw working when delivered and if it does not the bargain is over. That is the attitude of the credit card companies for sure. The vendor got your money for a working product, not a non-working product, regardless of any arguments under the UCC, for detrimental reliance is the stronger doctrine, especially when something falls to function right out of the box. No silly restocking fees, etc. I hope all of us will be willing to hold vendors and manufacturers to providing working products and not accept excuses. Otherwise, we will see less quality over time.

[Bryan Hall]

Truly a comedy of errors.

For those wishing me the best with my new ICS.... that day will not come. I can see the value of the safety mechanism. I liked the table size and the overall build. I can tell why people advocate for sawstop. Unfortunately, I asked plain and simple "can you guarantee the replacement saw will not have the same arbor problem?" They told me flat out, no, they are unsure if the arbor coming on the new saw would have to be replaced. There's just no way I can go down this road again, I've been working off my dewalt jobsite saw which I must say, truly rose to the occasion! It's old, and it's motor really shuddered trying to stand in for a 5hp cabinet saw. However, this is business and the time to remedy the situation was unforgivable, especially since they have told me that I might simply be hitting the reset button with fixing another saw that they would deliver.

My new (non-sawstop) saw should be here by the end of the month. Once I have it up and running I'll be sure to write up a full review on it.

[Charles Coolidge]

No silly restocking fees, etc.

Restocking fees, no returns and other made up terms retailers try to hoist onto the customer are not worth the paper they are written on. Most states have an implied warranty for merchantability law. This guarantees that a product will work as expected or you can return it for a full refund. In some states like my state even the often abused "as is" clause is not legal and does not override the legal implied warranty of merchantability. Knowing your rights as a consumer comes in handy.

[fred everett]

So glad it worked out for you Bryan. You never should have been treated that way.

Interesting story: On Tuesday I dropped a Ramelson gouge bending the tip. They're listed as RC 60 hardness so I thought why would it bend. I sent Ramelson an email honestly explaining I dropped it and asking if it SHOULD have bent. Same day their president responded, "I am so sorry that happened and NO it should not have bent. It's a bad temper on our part. Please send me the tool number so I can send you a replacement" I received the replacement today. Yes it's a $30 chisel, but chisels are they're thing. If table saws are your thing, your customers should be treated the same. Ramelson gets it!

[Bob Falk]

I have had my ICS for over 12 years and have dealt with Sawstop a few times. Their customer service IMO has been up there among the bests (like LV or beyond) and I am not easy to please. I probably have documented a few instances of my interactions with them early on. They are typically knowledgeable and have taken care of me beyond warranty.
Having said that I can feel how irritating your experience has been.
- regarding the table, is it the main table top that is off or an extension wing? and how much off we are talking about? I had to play with one wing to get it perfectly flat at the joint. Cast Iron does bend a bit (it's not as rigid as many think). Clamps and then tightening the bolts helps.

- The kickback you are describing at bevel cuts sounds an out of alignment issue. Sawstop has an excellent set of instructions to adjust the saw and in particular how to adjust it for bevel cuts. Have you gone through those steps? I have taken my saw apart a few times (moving from basement shop....) and put it back and have gone through the adjustment.

- The issue of the blade not detecting your finger: many people don't fully understand how the saw actually detects fingers. The original owner (Gass?) once answered that question on this forum as I had the same experience. The saw has two mechanism for detecting a finger touch, I forgot the terms but if you touch the the tip of the carbides with a (dry?) finger it wont easily detect it. If you touch the side of the blade it detects it but in a different way. To detect your finger touching the tip of the carbide it needs a bit of moist that might not be on the skin but if it breaks the skin it will immediately detect. I had noticed this and it was explained many years ago (should dig to find the thread). So the short answer is almost surely your saw is not faulty. There hasn't been a false-negative regarding sawstops AFAIK.

- Having manufacturing issue with some brakes and asking you to swap them shouldn't shake your confidence in the product or company. The fact that they are pro-active and contact/follow up to remedy this is actually a good sign. I have had one of the original saws that had a different cartridge. They changed their system after a few years later to a more improved one. In a phone call I had with them on a different issue they punched my serial number and noticed it and they offered to me to change the mechanism to the new one and sent me new brake cartridges too (all free of charge!).

I hope you can sort out your issues (perhaps they are not as deep as you might think) and enjoy your saw.

Interesting that SS replaced your cartridge mechanism with a new one. I also have an original ICS.....perhaps I should call them. I am guessing they would like to eliminate stocking the old cartridges.