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Thread: Sawstop ICS Problems and Support

  1. #91
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    Unfortunately DOA components are IME fairly common. In any case, my opinion of the manufacturer has taken a significant down turn due to the handling of this mess. I don't use my table saw often, but had been contemplating updating it due to the safety technology.. but at this point I'll just wait, or just not bother.
    ~mike

    life in a mud hut

  2. #92
    For reference, here are a couple of threads relating to warranties and customer service.
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....stomer-service
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....stomer-Service
    Lower your expectations and you won't be disappointed.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    For reference, here are a couple of threads relating to warranties and customer service. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....stomer-service https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....stomer-Service Lower your expectations and you won't be disappointed.
    It's interesting that the proposed solution is to simply accept less. I guess it's like anything else these days, poor quality is the goal
    ~mike

    life in a mud hut

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by mike stenson View Post
    It's interesting that the proposed solution is to simply accept less. I guess it's like anything else these days, poor quality is the goal
    It's not my goal. I'm just saying don't expect to get something you weren't promised. If you aren't getting the specified warranty coverage and service, insist on it and buck it up the chain until you get it. In this case, assuming Bryan's vendor actually does the work of replacing and calibrating the new parts at no charge they are exceeding what the warranty appears to cover. I hope it works out and the bad taste doesn't linger.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 01-06-2022 at 12:45 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    It's not my goal. I'm just saying don't expect to get something you weren't promised. If you aren't getting the specified warranty coverage and service, insist on it and buck it up the chain until you get it. In this case, assuming Bryan's vendor actually does the work of replacing and calibrating the new parts they are exceeding what the warranty appears to cover. I hope it works out and the bad taste doesn't linger.
    Not suggesting it's yours Kevin. It's clearly the goal of companies in general. Unfortunately, consumers happily accept it.
    ~mike

    life in a mud hut

  6. #96
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    With respect to the arbor nut engagement/seating, the general rule of thumb is to have 1.5 threads showing, after final torque. This rule of thumb, at least in my professional word, applies to fasteners in general. My background is maintenance, specifically as a millwright and rotating machinery specialist in the oil/gas and power generation industries. I would not feel comfortable with an arbor nut fully seated onto the side of a spinning blade that did not have, at minimum, half a thread proud of the nut. The washer aids in blade stability for a cleaner cut, so I’m less concerned about not using one from a safety perspective, but I’d prefer to use it if possible. Sucks to hear about the customer service issues. I’ve heard great things about SS customer service, so this story is a bit concerning, but these things do happen. Hopefully, SS will step up and get this resolved. If you had a YouTube channel with a few thousand followers, you’d get some good support……. Seems like that’s the new norm nowadays. Post a video and complain, get new stuff….

    A thought for the table flatness issue.... It would have a cost, but you could always reach out to a local machine shop and ask if they have a Faro arm or table. You could have them scan the saw's table and give you the CAD file (or PDF) to send to SS. These machines use a lazor to provide accuracy to the tenths (0.0001"). The argument would be over real quick.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hall View Post
    For the warranty, I guess in my mind I wouldn't even consider this a warranty issue. I think of warranties as protection against breakdown over time. I don't consider them as protection against defective from day 1 issues. .
    Actually, the very definition of a warranty is to cover the buyer from defects in parts and workmanship for a particular period of time. So if the unit is "all fouled up" from the time of recept, that's definitely a warranty issue, although for many things, a vendor or manufacturer will replace for that kind of situation. I can see the business reasoning for effecting repairs for large machines as the practicality of returns/shipping is what it is, but one should not have to jump through flaming hoops to get what they paid for. That's why I remain sad about your situation, even if they do make good at this point. There should not have been a delay putting a plan in place, even if it was necessary to wait for a replacement part to be available.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #98
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    A warranty is meant to assure you the product will last a specified length of time without issue, otherwise the manufacturer will fix the issue.

    With previous Grizzly prices (prior to all of the increases), it was kind of expected that the customer might have to do some QA because of the lower price. With a SS at full price, asking the customer to fix a SS QA issue is definitely unacceptable.

    Get your credit card company involved to put pressure on the vendor. If the vendor gets a charge back, they will be very motivated to fix the issue at any cost less than the total purchase price.

  9. #99
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    So where are you on this dilemma at this time? Has SawStop or your vendor gotten your issues resolved yet?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Blue View Post
    So where are you on this dilemma at this time? Has SawStop or your vendor gotten your issues resolved yet?
    I'm dead in the water at the moment. Sawstop told me the replacement table would be in last week for sure, and overnighted to me. Haven't heard anything from them and still no table. Vendor won't help. Have unfortunately reached out to my credit card company and they are investigating the issue to see if they can force a return. Not the way I hoped it would all go down for sure.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hall View Post
    I'm dead in the water at the moment. Sawstop told me the replacement table would be in last week for sure, and overnighted to me. Haven't heard anything from them and still no table. Vendor won't help. Have unfortunately reached out to my credit card company and they are investigating the issue to see if they can force a return. Not the way I hoped it would all go down for sure.
    That's unfortunate. Hopefully the credit card company can assist. Sounds like a vendor you will avoid going forward.

  12. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hall View Post
    I'm dead in the water at the moment. Sawstop told me the replacement table would be in last week for sure, and overnighted to me. Haven't heard anything from them and still no table. Vendor won't help. Have unfortunately reached out to my credit card company and they are investigating the issue to see if they can force a return. Not the way I hoped it would all go down for sure.
    Using nice words, this is unfortunate. Hopefully the investigation will put you in the drivers seat regarding next steps.
    Thanks,
    Fred

    Seasoned professional possessing unremarkable proficiency at innumerable skills.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred everett View Post
    Using nice words, this is unfortunate. Hopefully the investigation will put you in the drivers seat regarding next steps.
    Agreed.

    I heard from the CC company today (my local little credit union). Funds will be provisionally returned to my account within 10 days but the issue will remain open for 60 days.

    Essentially the vendor has to show proof that they sold me the saw with a no returns policy. I'm not sure how they could possibly do that, I didn't even get a receipt until the day the machine was delivered.

    It's a bad spot to be in. The vendor will be notified, which of course isn't going to make them happy. So now, the issue goes to either a forced return, or a forced repair. It's uncomfortable all around. Add to that, it puts me in an unsure place of should I order a new saw, or not... I suppose the right answer is get over it and order the new saw, but it will be a little less than exciting to try and sell a new 5hp ICS with extra brakes, power cord, woodpeckers attachments, etc. I kind of assume I'll know more in a few days.

  14. #104
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    My experience with CC companies and these kind of issues is that they always side with the consumer. They typically instantly remove the funds from the vendor's account and credit your account pending further responses from the vendor, which usually don't help their case.

    You're probably in pretty good shape there. My hunch is that they will force the vendor to take the saw back and issue a refund.
    - Its not that Im so smart, its just that I stay with problems longer. Albert Einstein
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hall View Post
    Agreed.

    I heard from the CC company today (my local little credit union). Funds will be provisionally returned to my account within 10 days but the issue will remain open for 60 days.

    Essentially the vendor has to show proof that they sold me the saw with a no returns policy. I'm not sure how they could possibly do that, I didn't even get a receipt until the day the machine was delivered.

    It's a bad spot to be in. The vendor will be notified, which of course isn't going to make them happy. So now, the issue goes to either a forced return, or a forced repair. It's uncomfortable all around. Add to that, it puts me in an unsure place of should I order a new saw, or not... I suppose the right answer is get over it and order the new saw, but it will be a little less than exciting to try and sell a new 5hp ICS with extra brakes, power cord, woodpeckers attachments, etc. I kind of assume I'll know more in a few days.
    I sure hope they get this settled quickly. The vendor sounds like a real turd. Besides providing crappy customer service, they've actually lied to you. SawStop has dropped the ball pretty badly as well. Have you tried escalating to a manager with SawStop? I guess that's a moot point by now.

    The thing is, SawStop has always had such a solid reputation for great customer service. They have been bought out by Festool's parent company and they too have very good customer service. Kind of odd.

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