Maksiwa - Cantek - Laguna Sliders

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Hey all, some of you make have seen my post about buying a slider recently. I listed a lot of info and questions there, but posting this one separately simply to ask if anyone out there has had any at all experience with and of the sliding table saws offered from either Maksiwa, Cantek, or Laguna? Most of the folks here have mentioned experiences with SCM, Martin, Felder/Hammer, Altendorf, and some others and I'm interested in those too....but in my budget falls a bunch of other machines including a few from these below and no one has really talked about them... The specific models I'm looking at from each are the....

Maksiwa 3200 line - very hard to understand the differences between their models though
Cantek P305 - would prefer an 8.5ft machine but this one seems to offer good value coming in around 9k in seems and 10ft
Laguna P12/5 - This is the short stroke model. The 8ft version is a little past my price point, but might consider this SS if I decide to go that route.

Countries of Origin also seems to be in question....

Maksiwa supposedly has factories in 3 different countries
Cantek claims to be made in Taiwan
Laguna I have no idea where the sliders are made....I think a lot of there stuff is made overseas and they were/are involved with Robland but I don't know where the sliders come from.


Again really curious if anyone has had hands on any of these models or at least the brands sliders. Thanks!

[Dan Friedrichs]

Kurt, have you seen this thread?
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....nture-(So-Far)

[Dave Roock]

Maksiwa is a Brazilian company, probable manufactured there. Interesting to discover.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Kurt, have you seen this thread?
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....nture-(So-Far)

Hi Dan, Yes, I did actually see that thread. And I've actually seen those Zicar etc saws online and been intrigued myself. I might give the thread a full read again because it seems like there is a huge savings potential there, but I am not sure I have the stomach to go through it as I can't have my shop down for a long time as I'm doing it for a living. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Maksiwa is a Brazilian company, probable manufactured there. Interesting to discover.

I read it some where as a response from the company with someone who had asked the question of where they are built. They mentioned 3 locations one of which was China...I don't actually think they mentioned building anything in Brazil, but I know that's where it is located and they advertise being the #1 panel saw company in South America....who knows....still trying to find people who have seen or used one.

[Kevin Jenness]

Maksiwa is pretty new in the US market, so it may be hard to find users. You could pm Osvaldo Cristo on this forum as he is in Brazil and might know something about the brand.

Cantek is an Asian brand imported by Akhurst Machinery for over 20 years. I have seen some favorable references to the line on Woodweb. Akhurst is based in Canada so it might be worth asking on the Canadian Woodworking Forum as well as Woodweb.

Laguna certainly has had its share of customer service complaints over the years, it seems to be less of a problem now.

I'm sorry I can't comment on theses saws based on experience, but I would take into consideration the overall record and solidity of whoever is going to stand behind the machine in case of problems.

[Erik Loza]

There are several shops in my territory that have what I would call any of the mass-produced East Asian clone brands of sliding panel saw. Knocked-off Italian or German designs but marketed on low selling price. None of these owners seem truly impressed. More like, "I know there are better brands but this is what I could afford". One owner told me that basically every bolt was loose on the machine he received and that he spent several days handling all that on his own time. And still requires checking on the regular. The other complaint I hear is off crosscut fences requiring complete recalibration if ever moved off 90 degrees. Based on what I have seen, my suggestion would be to stick to Italian or Austrian if you want new. If you can't afford new, I would keep an eye open for a used Italian machine. Or possibly a used Robland Z3200. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Maksiwa is pretty new in the US market, so it may be hard to find users. You could pm Osvaldo Cristo on this forum as he is in Brazil and might know something about the brand.

Cantek is an Asian brand imported by Akhurst Machinery for over 20 years. I have seen some favorable references to the line on Woodweb. Akhurst is based in Canada so it might be worth asking on the Canadian Woodworking Forum as well as Woodweb.

Laguna certainly has had its share of customer service complaints over the years, it seems to be less of a problem now.

I'm sorry I can't comment on theses saws based on experience, but I would take into consideration the overall record and solidity of whoever is going to stand behind the machine in case of problems.

Curious to know more about this....on Cantek's site they don't mention Akhurst best I can see they say North American brand since 1985 and that the equipment is produced in Taiwan....https://cantekamerica.com/about/#toggle-id-2-closed

As for Maksiwa, you're right seems relatively new here, but I would think that there have to be some people on here who have had their hands on one. They seem like nice machines, but you can only tell so much from a picture.

I guess the big question becomes is what is the quality difference between the Taiwan imports vs Euro and then vs Chinese? I think my JET was made in Taiwan and I can tell you vs the US Delta that was made at the time (my Dad bought at the same time as me) my saw was hands down better fit and finish...and has worked very well. But that's of course just one slightly related experience.

Best I can tell, there are really only 2 components that set these saws apart from typical American style cabinet saws....the motor/drive system and the slider itself. I tend to think that the motors are probably on par with a lot of brands across the board especially those using reputable brands (in cabinets) like Baldor or Leeson but I am sure there can be some quality differences. The trunion system likewise better heavier metal is typically going to win. So then it would seem that the biggest component is the quality of the slider itself and the overall accuracy/calibration/fit finish of the machines. So for me this then becomes who makes the best slider for the money?

Maybe I'm just rambling my random thoughts about this, but this is a difficult process for people relatively new to this style of saw who haven't worked in industrial shops before. And really just trying to get some a better understanding through others experiences. The biggest downside is that this type of stuff can't really be found in a showroom or anything to just go put your hands on it because that would make this type of choice sooooo much easier

[Kurt Wyberanec]

There are several shops in my territory that have what I would call any of the mass-produced East Asian clone brands of sliding panel saw. Knocked-off Italian or German designs but marketed on low selling price. None of these owners seem truly impressed. More like, "I know there are better brands but this is what I could afford". One owner told me that basically every bolt was loose on the machine he received and that he spent several days handling all that on his own time. And still requires checking on the regular. The other complaint I hear is off crosscut fences requiring complete recalibration if ever moved off 90 degrees. Based on what I have seen, my suggestion would be to stick to Italian or Austrian if you want new. If you can't afford new, I would keep an eye open for a used Italian machine. Or possibly a used Robland Z3200. Good luck in your search.

Erik

Thanks Erik, I have such mixed opinions about Chinese goods it's not funny. They have come a very long way and half the places make garbage and half make great products. It's really hard to know the difference and quality control can definitely be an issue. Some of the other countries in Asia have slightly better reputations for certain types of products but I am unfamiliar with machinery reputations there. The one thing that concerns me about Chinese goods is the steel itself. Something like 98% of the scrap metal in the US is sold to China just to be recycled into whatever they want. There is so much impurity in the metals it's not funny. One of the reasons why for instance you might still have old drill bits from your Dad US or German made from 50 years ago that still cut well and why you might have broke 4 Chinese bits in the last year!

I know obviously you have a stake in Austrian stuff and we know about your experience with Italy....but I'm curious if you can give a good assessment of how Robland (as you mentioned) actually stacks up against them? Are they actually made in Belgium or do they outsource too? My big issue with new from them is it appears (without speaking to a rep) that the biggest single phase motor they offer is 3hp and I really want to get around a 5 and even though the Phase Perfect system seems attractive I don't know that it's really worth it for me to look into because it'll take 2k+ away from the machine budget.

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

Robland is now associated with Martin for importing/distribution.

https://martin-usa.com/news/robland-...uct-portfolio/

[Mark e Kessler]

Curious to know more about this....on Cantek's site they don't mention Akhurst best I can see they say North American brand since 1985 and that the equipment is produced in Taiwan....https://cantekamerica.com/about/#toggle-id-2-closed


I guesaccuracy/calibration/fit finish of the machines. So for me this then becomes who makes the best

For me spending $1-2k on a asian bandsaw, sander, CS whatever is a lot lower risk then spending 5-8k on a slider. A lot needs to be right on a slider for you to gain the benefits, it goes without saying you get what you pay for (in general) - less money = less precision/repeatability, reliability, fit and finish, features, way to adjust those features ect.

Aside from potentially the Altendorf that is made in China (WA series) I’ve never even consider anything but a European saw, you really can’t go wrong with an scmi, Felder however my additional comment on that is if you buy the lower end you have a variation of what I pointed out above where you get what you pay for but a bump up from an asian saw.

When I started out there was no internet (accessible to me) with tons of information and research to figure out what you needed, you went to your industrial supplier (or a trade show) that sold a few brands and relied on their expertise to match a machine with your requirements and budget. The other thing that wasn’t around (at least that i had seen) were all these lower end saws, scmi had mini max and thats what I went with initially then upgrading within scm. My personal opinion is that most of these lower end saws have been value engineered to make them affordable (or seem affordable in the beginning) and you get what you pay for (have I said it enough ).


One thing i would be thinking about is how long do you plan on having this saw? Just for awhile so you can figure out what you really want long term, or you want to buy once and be done with it, if it’s the latter how long 20-30 years? If so that 10-15k ain’t so bad. I doubt one of those asian saws will be around in that time, at least one that still holds it’s settings - you could by an upper end scm that is 20 yrs old for little money and it will preform better than a new asian saw.

it’s a lot of effort to get one of these delivered, installed, working the way you like ect to be switching them out - you are essentially stuck with it once you get it and for me spending a few thousand more to get all the features I want/can’t take later is a lot easier to swallow then realizing after the fact that you should have done it from the beginning.

[Kevin Jenness]

Curious to know more about this....on Cantek's site they don't mention Akhurst best I can see they say North American brand since 1985 and that the equipment is produced in Taiwan....https://cantekamerica.com/about/#toggle-id-2-closed

I guess the big question becomes is what is the quality difference between the Taiwan imports vs Euro and then vs Chinese?... who makes the best slider for the money?

I guess it's more accurate to say Cantek is an American subsidiary of Akhurst, which is Canadian. https://www.akhurst.com/history/

As to quality, I think you have to look at the specific machines. Asian factories can produce whatever quality level their clients demand. Then it's on the importers to back up their promises. I appreciate your quandary and I think you will have to cast your net wide to find users of the more obscure brands. Ideally the importers would be able to steer you to satisfied customers who would be happy to show off their machines. Good luck with that.

I was interested and actually a bit surprised to read Erik's post on your other thread that you could get a basic full size European slider for under $12k - that's real money and beyond your budget but at least it gives you a benchmark.

I will add a quote from a post on buying unfamiliar technology by Gary Campbell - not the same but analogous and related to Mark's point.

"NEVER purchase a CNC Router with price as a primary concern.
Find a machine that fits your needs and then save your money until you can purchase that machine." (Keith Outten)

What Keith says is very true and SHOULD be applied to virtually any equipment purchase. Tools and equipment are an investment, and as such have an expected return. That return, over time drives the amount of the investment. That investment, divided by years determines the annual budget. You need to determine if the gain in production will offset the annual costs.

"Budget" is a verb. It only becomes a noun after all the calculations are done and is approved by all parties.

If your purchase is not for business, and there is not an expected return on investment, then it is a toy, not a tool. If it is a toy, then use the price of items to determine your "need". But do not make the error of using the word "budget" when you mean "price". The "amount you have" or "the amount you wish to spend" are just that, not a budget.

[Mike Kees]

Kurt I told you about the Cantek slider I ran into on the other thread. I live in Alberta and Ackhurst machinery has a dealer in Edmonton. Cantek machines that I have seen and used are a 12'' parallel jointer and a 20'' planer( P20HV).I own this planer. They make some very good machines, the ones already mentioned as well as Shapers.I was ready to buy one of the shapers when I found a Delta RS 15 for peanuts. I have yet to see a person raving about their sliders, not saying they are not good too just not near as many out there as the other machines it seems. I specifically asked one of the sales guys at Ackhurst if he could point me to a user of one of the sliders in my area to check out. When I contacted the user they had only had it for a month ,I never did go see it as I found a great deal on my Felder used. Like others have said in this thread I would be inclined to stick with a known quality machine when it comes to sliding table saws.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Kurt I told you about the Cantek slider I ran into on the other thread. I live in Alberta and Ackhurst machinery has a dealer in Edmonton. Cantek machines that I have seen and used are a 12'' parallel jointer and a 20'' planer( P20HV).I own this planer. They make some very good machines, the ones already mentioned as well as Shapers.I was ready to buy one of the shapers when I found a Delta RS 15 for peanuts. I have yet to see a person raving about their sliders, not saying they are not good too just not near as many out there as the other machines it seems. I specifically asked one of the sales guys at Ackhurst if he could point me to a user of one of the sliders in my area to check out. When I contacted the user they had only had it for a month ,I never did go see it as I found a great deal on my Felder used. Like others have said in this thread I would be inclined to stick with a known quality machine when it comes to sliding table saws.

Must have missed that part Mike, thanks for the info!

[Richard Coers]

You don't think "you get what you pay for" applies with sliders? No way would I go low end shopping for a supplier. Do you think you can rebuild the wagon with parts from them in 5-10 years when it wears out?