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Thread: Sawstop ICS Problems and Support

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    They state that a 3/4" dado set can be used by leaving out the outer washer. From that one can safely deduce that the nut will be sufficiently threaded on to work safely. Manufacturers spend a great deal on legal & will include extra verbiage at every opportunity. I see this as a case of the intent being so obvious that further explanation is not required.
    After additional calls to the vendor and the SS techs yesterday and today: Neither will say that it's safe, both said it's concerning, and SS has told me they will have to get back to me with more info as to whether I can use the full stack or not.

    Will let you know when I hear back from SS with more info.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hall View Post
    Vendor has stated that Sawstop froze their entire inventory and took most of their saws back to the factory because every one of them is defective. So, they don't have a loaner saw to give.
    I just did a check with 4 SawStop dealers here & all models are readily available, or within a day or two shipping. Some of the parts & accessories are out of stock though. It sounds like you're being strung along, possibly.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hall View Post
    After additional calls to the vendor and the SS techs yesterday and today: Neither will say that it's safe, both said it's concerning, and SS has told me they will have to get back to me with more info as to whether I can use the full stack or not.

    Will let you know when I hear back from SS with more info.
    To quote from page 12 of the manual:

    "Never stack dado blades thicker than 13/16". In case further explanation is needed, that means that the nut is on far enough as long as the dado stack is no more than 13/16" thick. That's just about exactly what a 3/4" dado with a bunch of shims measures at.

    And from page 18:

    "For dado widths larger than about 3/16", remove the arbor washer and tighten the arbor nut against the dado set."

    This isn't that complicated folks. It took me all of about 30 seconds to download the manual & search it for "dado". Personally, I'll take what's printed in the manual & has made is past who knows how many engineers & lawyers.

    Please don't take my comments as a blanket endorsement of SawStop's wonderfulness. Full disclosure; I have a PCS & like it a lot & have no complaints at all. But since I bought it, the company has been bought by Festool & I have had no interactions with them since then & can't comment on the current quality of customer service.
    Last edited by Frank Pratt; 01-04-2022 at 4:01 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    To quote from page 12 of the manual:

    "Never stack dado blades thicker than 13/16". In case further explanation is needed, that means that the nut is on far enough as long as the dado stack is no more than 13/16" thick. That's just about exactly what a 3/4" dado with a bunch of shims measures at.

    And from page 18:

    "For dado widths larger than about 3/16", remove the arbor washer and tighten the arbor nut against the dado set."

    This isn't that complicated folks. It took me all of about 30 seconds to download the manual & search it for "dado". Personally, I'll take what's printed in the manual & has made is past who knows how many engineers & lawyers.

    Please don't take my comments as a blanket endorsement of SawStop's wonderfulness. Full disclosure; I have a PCS & like it a lot & have no complaints at all. But since I bought it, the company has been bought by Festool & I have had no interactions with them since then & can't comment on the current quality of customer service.
    I think the point I'm focused on, and you are skipping over, is how seated the arbor nut is supposed to be. I read the manual and searched for dado just as you did. I found the same exact thing about the washer, but there is no comment on the nut and it's threads. No mention of the nut not fully threading onto the arbor. I completely understand you are comfortable making that leap in assessment, but I'm not. I have a saw that clearly has issues, is getting the arbor, block, and table replaced.

    Is it not reasonable to question the possibility that something that looks safe, might be unsafe? Especially with someone reporting an accident 5 months ago doing the exact thing we are discussing and both the vendor and SS techs expressing concern about the safety of the tool?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hall View Post
    I think the point I'm focused on, and you are skipping over, is how seated the arbor nut is supposed to be. I read the manual and searched for dado just as you did. I found the same exact thing about the washer, but there is no comment on the nut and it's threads. No mention of the nut not fully threading onto the arbor. I completely understand you are comfortable making that leap in assessment, but I'm not. I have a saw that clearly has issues, is getting the arbor, block, and table replaced.

    Is it not reasonable to question the possibility that something that looks safe, might be unsafe? Especially with someone reporting an accident 5 months ago doing the exact thing we are discussing and both the vendor and SS techs expressing concern about the safety of the tool?
    There doesn't need to be any comment on the nut or threads. They already said that if you drop the washer & the dado is no more than 13/16" thick, your good to go (read: there are enough threads engaged between the nut & arbor).

    Every table saw I've owned or used a dado on has the same directive; remove the washer for wide dado cuts. If you have your doubts, use some red Locktite on your arbor nut. It'll make it hell to change the blade out, but you can be comfortable knowing that the nut will never spin off.

  6. #66
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    Bryan Hall: do you have a link about this accident involving SawStop and a dao set?

    I tried Google and DuckDuckGo search engines and nothing came up about an accident involving a dado stack.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Newman View Post
    Bryan Hall: do you have a link about this accident involving SawStop and a dao set?

    I tried Google and DuckDuckGo search engines and nothing came up about an accident involving a dado stack.
    I posted the link a few days ago, but sometimes the splitting of the threads on this forum causes me to miss peoples comments so you may have missed it.

    https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/thre...r-nuts.226845/

    3 separate people reported 4 different occasions where the arbor nut came loose when using the dado stack. The one guy who had it happen twice, was the OP and was using a sawstop saw. Another reported it on a laguna saw, and the last didn't mention their saw.

    One person did call in and talk with sawstop about the situation. They posted about certain dado stacks having too much mass, and that you need to seek a lighter dado stack with SS and the tech recommended using a dewalt dado stack.

    Let me know what you think about that thread?

  8. #68
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    The picture I posted earlier shows that the arbor threaded parts on all these cabinet saws is about the same. So this "issue" you are concerned about is not unique to Sawstop. You probably are better off not getting a cabinet saw and get a slider as you wanted, otherwise you setup yourself for another disappointment.
    A nut on a dado set (on any cabinet saw) can come loose if the motor comes to an abrupt stop (or if this happens too many times). This is rare but as others have said can happen, and is unlikely to have anything to do with the brake system on the saw.

  9. #69
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    I don't know why manufacturers don't give a torque figure for the arbor nut. An experienced person has no trouble tightening the nut enough so it won't loosen, yet not damage the threads. But there are enough that don't have that knowledge or experience (with sometimes disastrous results) and it would be a service to them to give more guidance.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    But since I bought it, the company has been bought by Festool & I have had no interactions with them since then & can't comment on the current quality of customer service.
    Minor correction...SawStop was bought by the same parent company that owns Festool, Tanos, Narex, Shaper Origin, etc. (43 companies total) TTS Tooltechnic Systems is a holding company.
    -----

    For the record, the situation that the OP is facing is very concerning. And the vendor wanting to take a restocking fee on a defective machine is unfathomable.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Minor correction...SawStop was bought by the same parent company that owns Festool, Tanos, Narex, Shaper Origin, etc. (43 companies total) TTS Tooltechnic Systems is a holding company.
    -----

    For the record, the situation that the OP is facing is very concerning. And the vendor wanting to take a restocking fee on a defective machine is unfathomable.
    Right you are, my bad.

    Me thinks there's something fishy going on with the vendor & they're only concern is not having to deal with an unhappy customer. As I said, the story about every SawStop in the world having to be recalled to the factory has a real smell to it. My experience with SawStop's CS is that they would normally have had replacement parts shipped out the next day.

  12. #72
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    For the dado stack, my understanding is to use the style where the chippers are the long ovals with only two teeth. I use the DeWalt model and position the chippers so they are balanced. No issues with mine at least. On mine set for 3/4, the arbor is dead even with the nut when tightened down. With the huge number of Sawstop saws in use, I can't imagine it being a common problem or there would be lots of threads on it.

    You want to talk scary, try a stack with full chippers on a Bosch 3100 jobsite saw! I tried it once and then trashed the dado set.

    All the other concerns you raised would definitely bother me too and need to be resolved by Sawstop and/or your reseller. I had a brake trip for no reason once and they took care of it quickly. The saw wasn't even running, but main power was on. It was really hot from ripping a bunch of really hard 8/4 ash. I touched the blade and the brake tripped and scared the crap out of me. No damage to the blade at all since it wasn't spinning. I think it was some weird static discharge or something.

    Jason

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Minor correction...SawStop was bought by the same parent company that owns Festool, Tanos, Narex, Shaper Origin, etc. (43 companies total) TTS Tooltechnic Systems is a holding company.
    -----

    For the record, the situation that the OP is facing is very concerning. And the vendor wanting to take a restocking fee on a defective machine is unfathomable.
    and I have to correct myself here. The vendor didn't offer to take it back at 25% restocking fee. They offered to take it back on consignment. They'd sell it for whatever they could get, and keep 25% for themselves.

    Which is even worse.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    Right you are, my bad.

    Me thinks there's something fishy going on with the vendor & they're only concern is not having to deal with an unhappy customer. As I said, the story about every SawStop in the world having to be recalled to the factory has a real smell to it. My experience with SawStop's CS is that they would normally have had replacement parts shipped out the next day.
    To be fair, the first post on this thread was 12/30; on 12/31 Bryan had a new arbor block in hand. The vendor's behavior sounds sketchy and the CS interaction almost as bad, but the option is there to put the part in and get back to work while awaiting a new top. I understand the reluctance to get in between the dealer and Sawstop or to put any work into a lemon. Still, the Sawstop warranty extends only to parts.

    If SawStop determines the saw is defective in material or workmanship, and not due to misuse, abuse, negligence, accidents, normal wear-and-tear, unauthorized repair or alteration, or lack of maintenance, then SawStop will, at its expense, and upon proof of purchase, send replacement parts to the original retail purchaser necessary to cure the defect.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 01-05-2022 at 10:28 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    Why are people so hesitant to follow advice given by those who design and build the machines? Is there some vast reservoir of hidden knowledge that had been tapped by some?
    Clever. I going to go high road though...
    Thanks,
    Fred

    Seasoned professional possessing unremarkable proficiency at innumerable skills.

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