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Thread: Diamond Abrasive Lapping Fluid

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Lubbock, Tx
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
    It does not react with iron or steel. So no, it will not cause rust.
    I’m confused. Why won’t the water in windex (which is the majority of the solution) not cause rust?

    eta: if there’s a chemical in it that does, I’d be curious which and how it works.
    Last edited by Tony Wilkins; 12-29-2021 at 5:06 PM.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wilkins View Post
    Iím confused. Why wonít the water in windex (which is the majority of the solution) not cause rust?

    eta: if thereís a chemical in it that does, Iíd be curious which and how it works.
    NH4 has a +1 charge; OH has a -1 charge. It forms an ionic bond. As opposed to some ammonia over here doing its own thing and water over there doing its own thing (like causing rust).

  3. #18
    You can't run through if you do not use it
    Tom

  4. #19
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stankus View Post
    The sds for the trend stuff looks like naphtha and hydro treated petroleum distillates
    ...
    Several years ago someone here researched and found that the Trend fluid was kerosene and naptha. And pretty blue dye.
    He didn't say the percentages but it probably doesn't matter much.

    JKJ

  5. #20
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    Feb 2003
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    San Antonio, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
    NH4 has a +1 charge; OH has a -1 charge. It forms an ionic bond. As opposed to some ammonia over here doing its own thing and water over there doing its own thing (like causing rust).
    Ammonia is a weak base, so that only a small proportion of the ammonia is in the form of ammonium. Kb=1.77x10-5 It's all about the equilibrium.

    Based on the MSDS's value for the pH of Windex of 10.7 that would mean the hydroxide [OH-] concentration would be about 0.0005 M meaning the ratio of NH4+ to NH3 concentration in solution would be about 0.035 to 1. (ignoring any other equilibria that may be going on at the same time)

    Iron can corrode in basic environments. It will create an Iron Hydroxide which can convert to Iron oxide. I'll have to dig around for some of the corrosion and electrochemistry texts when I get back to the office.

    I am not completely up on corrosion chemistry, but this should be reasonably close on what can go on. (I'm a Physical Chemist (laser spectroscopist by training), not an electrochemist).

    Then again chemistry is an experimental science...best would be to do a head to head comparison.

    John


    p.s. Probably the kinetics for most of these corrosion reactions is slow enough, that as long as you wipe off and dry the tool you are sharpening it probably doesn't matter what you use as a lubricant.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Missouri
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    I learned glass cleaner (ammonia) use from an old now gone machinist friend. When he made parts for me his final clean was with glass cleaner (ammonia.) His comment to me was if you are going to paint donít touch it, take it home and paint it today. If you are not painting take it home and oil it because ďthe air will rust it.Ē I just do it and it has worked for me for many years. I think they use ammonia based cleaners in those heavy duty parts cleaning cabinets for steel. Donít know anything more about the chemistry. Glass cleaner has worked for me for cleaning steel for a long time.
    Jim

  7. #22
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    Aug 2019
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I did a bit of math and the Trend honing fluid came down to $411 per gallon at today's prices on Amazon. This has been beaten down to death on many threads here and in other fora. The SDS of that product lists its main ingredient as mineral oil. Food grade mineral oils is about $15 a gallon. Granted, they may be using some super duper refined mineral oil or some magical ingredient that makes all the difference when honing, but I doubt it. I've been using run of the mill food grade mineral oil for several years on diamond stones and oilstones. I don't have to worry about it corrosion after honing. I expect my gallon to last about 4 years, I'm not skimpy with it, YMMV.

  8. #23
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    Apr 2015
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    New England area
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    Lighter fluid. The can it comes in can't be beat.

  9. #24
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    Aug 2019
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    Lighter fluid. The can it comes in can't be beat.
    $96 a gallon.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Longview WA
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    For lapping fluid on Arkansas stones mineral oil has been my first choice. It can be purchased in most drug stores or in the pharmacy section of grocery stores. It is often labeled as a laxative - household lubricant.

    Recently A bottle of baby oil was purchased. This is a lower viscosity than the food grade mineral oil. It has very little other adulterants. It is "gentle on baby's skin" so it is probably okay on us grownups' skin.

    Baby Oil.png (Fred Meyer ad, a Kroger affiliate)

    This product with aloe vera & vitamin E is a lightly scented & gentle baby oil that helps moisturize & soften baby's skin. This product is dermatologist and allergy tested.
    At less than $17 a gallon that isn't to bad for something that isn't highly flammable and might actually feel good on rough hands.

    Just ask any squeaky baby about rust prevention.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Michiana
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    2,411
    I use a grinder coolant I got from the tool room at work. It has a water soluble corrosion inhibitor like HoneRite. It’s blue like Windex. A quart should last me forever.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Tokyo, Japan
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
    I just use windex. Can't cause rust and it evaporates off all on its own.

    I did that, and then found that I have an allergy to something in windex and similar window cleaners.
    I have a reaction consistently, every single time I touch the stuff now.

    I'm not allergic to things in general, but I'm guessing whatever harsh chemicals are in there triggered some reaction...
    Last edited by Luke Dupont; 01-01-2022 at 8:32 PM.

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