Heavy Duty Cabinet Hinge for Frameless Cabinets?

[Bryan Hall]

I went by a clients house today and at the end of looking at some builtin projects and restoration work they asked me to take a look at their 5 year old custom kitchen build. Frameless cabinets with blum clip top hinges throughout. They have young kids, so they are a bit hard on things, but I was a bit shocked. Every single hinge was ripped out of the plywood boxes and every single shaker door had split where the blum expansion clip was in place.

I don't get asked to do a lot of cabinet door replacements... but is this normal wear and tear for these hinges with kids beating on them? (I know kids are relentless). Any recommendations for hinges that I could switch them to that might hold up better?

They asked if they needed a warranty claim on the work, but I told them I doubted kids jerking on the doors would be covered by the original builder...

[Lee Schierer]

I would make it clear that damage by kids or adults is not covered by your warranty either. Cabinet hinges are not designed to support the weight of a human, large or small. Doubling up on hinges will help, but add to your cost. You could use piano hinges which are stronger, but not as decorative.

[Jamie Buxton]

I went by a clients house today and at the end of looking at some builtin projects and restoration work they asked me to take a look at their 5 year old custom kitchen build. Frameless cabinets with blum clip top hinges throughout. They have young kids, so they are a bit hard on things, but I was a bit shocked. Every single hinge was ripped out of the plywood boxes and every single shaker door had split where the blum expansion clip was in place.

I don't get asked to do a lot of cabinet door replacements... but is this normal wear and tear for these hinges with kids beating on them? (I know kids are relentless). Any recommendations for hinges that I could switch them to that might hold up better?

They asked if they needed a warranty claim on the work, but I told them I doubted kids jerking on the doors would be covered by the original builder...

What you're saying is that the hinges themselves are still okay. What's broken is the connection to the cabinet. Possible fixes.....

Use veneer core plywood for the casework. It seems now that the default plywood has either a full MDF core, or MDF crossbanding. MDF doesn't hold screws well. The MDF crossbanding leaves only 3/8" of real wood to screw to. Also, use 3/4" screws for the connection to the casework. Your plywood probably is shy of 3/4" thick, but the screw head seats on the hinge, so the screw tip doesn't go through the plywood. Also, use three screws to the casework.

You say on the doors they used some expansion clip? Don't use intermediate clips. Instead use real screws going directly into hardwood. Again, use 3/4" screws. Maybe mill the door stock a tad thick to give you more peace of mind when you drive those screws.


But all the careful cabinetmaking is not going to save furniture from somebody who is determined to destroy it. A door is a great big lever. You can open it to the stops, and then shove it further open. Something's gonna break.

[Mark Bolton]

Im not a Blum guy but odd that the clip tops split the actual door material. Were the shaker rails/stiles narrow to where the drilling pattern left the screw holes really close to the panel mortise? Like others have said, there really can be no way to resolve a bunch of hooligans (which could also be the parents) and bulletproofing anything. Im old school and dont even use knock-in/press-in hinges and still stick with screws. Using long screws that run almost all the way through the door, without pre-drilling, could easily be a detriment to just running standard 1/2" or 5/8" screws creating split on the grain.

Maybe you snapped some photos. Hard to really say by description alone. Sad that the original maker spent the extra on the clip-top and they are no falling apart but if there are a bunch of individuals being savages on the doors there is potentially nothing that will save them.

[Rob Sack]

I have been using Blum Inserta hinges ever since they came out. I have probably installed close to five hundred over the years. I have never had one split a door, whether the door frame was hardwood, softwood, or MDF core. This seems to be any issue of abuse, not inadequate hardware.

[Bryan Hall]

@Lee, the client is very reasonable. They know their kids are ragers and they didn't seem surprised when I told them calling the original cabinet maker would be a dead end.

@Jamie, yeah I figured that the ply used is likely MDF core. The screws ripped out extremely clean, almost zero chipout at the hole location. I'd expect to see more damage than just a fuzzy hole when screws are ripped out.

@Rob, glad to hear you've had success with those hinges. The idea of them being so easy to install/remove is great to me, but this was the first I've seen them in the field and it was definitely a concern.

I figured it was likely a longshot anyone would have a recommendation on a hinge. It's definitely heavy abuse (even the bedroom doors, which are 2 hinge instead of 3, are getting ripped off the hinges in this house).

I think my recommendation would have to be a rebuild and going with 3 hinges on a faceframe if they really want to fight the kids on this.

My recommendation on the way out: Remove your cabinet doors and call it an open concept kitchen for the next few years. I was kind of joking, and not.

[Jim Becker]

Or convert to drawers that the kids can hang on and break...

[Warren Lake]

I was asked to pass this on below. Ive used enough euro hinges but not a huge fan at times endless kitchens that have been in a year after instal and doors are lose out of alignment or hitting, Some past hinges failed on me ill leave the manufacturer out but have talked with them at the last interior design show and clear they had to redesign them.

If it was a small job I put a bit of white glue and knock in the nylon inserts. On the hinge machine the nylon inserts were on the hinges I still put glue in the hole first even if it slowed the process.

I havent used these,


https://www.amazon.com/Blum-Cliptop-.../dp/B00B19S83U

[Jim Becker]

I have a big suspicion that some failures of Euro type hinges stem from fasteners that just are not appropriate for the material they are being installed in. What comes with the hinge might not be the best choice, in other words. Thread type and like Warren mentions, inserts in some material that provide additional "grip" may decrease the likelihood of failure.

[Warren Lake]

jim ive seen nylon on some doors pulling out so you look at the hinge and its sitting out from the door .060 or up to .100 say. I was already using glue before that out of logic and my cynical nature, it only made me stay cynical. I used to always have a swiss army knife on my key chain. Friend would take me meet new people. Have a drink sit in the nice kitchen talk cant help it my eyes keep drifting im looking at door gaps whatever I cant help it. so I ask do you mind if I look close at your kitchen. I look as can I adjust this hinge and they hesitate, first time meeting me and they paid alot for the kitchen.

Army knife comes out doors all adjust easy then sit down and talk. When I leave I hear you can bring that guy back anytime. Worst one was a friend Laura kitchen a year I look I dont do kitchens but its the usual buy the doors then make the boxes and finish the doors stuff. I dont get kitchens seem like a free for all but im open and realize there is huge volume being done.

On hers doors were rubbing but there were even doors that would not close they were so far out, STuff had just loosened up not broken just loose. So its clearly a common thing, I wonder now say last year or two with advances in hinges how much better that is likely they have solved it. Torque has come up on other things here, so did those kitchen hinges loosen in less than a year as its the nature of the beast, or where they not tightened enough or?

[Mark Bolton]

Good god... Does this read like the progressive commercial about not becoming your parents to anyone else?

[Bruce Wrenn]

If room allows, change out 120 degree hinges to 165 degree ones. For over twenty five years, I built cabinets for local "Y's." Only time I ever used anything other than 165's was if door opened against the wall.

[Bryan Hall]

If room allows, change out 120 degree hinges to 165 degree ones. For over twenty five years, I built cabinets for local "Y's." Only time I ever used anything other than 165's was if door opened against the wall.

To help with kids slamming them open?

[Bruce Wrenn]

To help with kids slamming them open?

When they try to open them more than 120 degrees, the hinge stops, so they push harder.