Slider Table Saws to consider?

[Brian Burns VT]

Michael, are you planning to rip on this saw as well as using the slider capacity? I work in a small (8-10 people) production shop and we have a Hammer K3L as well as a Felder 700 shaper. They both get a decent amount of use and abuse. The saw sees 750-1000 hours a year and the shaper probably 400-500 hours just so you have an idea. I don't think I'd recommend going down the Felder family route based on our experience though because of chronic electrical problems on both machines. These started well before we logged a ton of hours on either fwiw. The shaper has been much worse (it's got a lot more going on than the saw) but both have frequently had their red, plastic 'off' switches fail among other things. Parts aren't expensive but diagnostics sometimes involve getting Felder on the phone to track down the exact issue/cause with a volt meter which means not running tools in the shop so we can be on the phone while this is going on etc. Felder does a great job with this so no complaints there but it seems excessive considering we have many other machines that we use just as much as these that definitely never have these issues. We are replacing the Hammer with a Minimax mostly because of age and not these issues. Just my two cents. The Hammer cuts great considering how many hours we've logged on it. I also love Euro panel saws for cutting stuff so highly recommend that part of things. Downsides (aside from electronic stuff) are proprietary arbor thus proprietary blades, it's pretty loud, dust collection not great and the functionality of ripping is marginal. Like others have said, you need to max out slider to change blades which shouldn't be a problem if you are planning to use the max throw to cut stuff in your space. It's possible that Felder has addressed these issues on their new machines. I'd want to know that before buying anything though. I got to lay my hands on all the Felder, Hammer and Minimax panel saws at AWFS this summer and they all felt great in the showroom. Just one man's experience, good luck

[Brian Burns VT]

Michael, forgot to mention no dado capacity on our Hammer

[Rod Sheridan]

Michael, forgot to mention no dado capacity on our Hammer

All modern Hammer saws are available with dado capability IF the machine is ordered with it….Rod

[Jim Becker]

I read somewhere that these machines need to be special ordered for Dado use? Something about the standard arbor size being too short? Is that really a thing with sliders?

Most of the SCM/Minimax sliders for US use are dado-capable natively and most have 5/8" arbors for the main blade that match a typical cabinet saw. Since you can get dado capability with both SCM/MiniMax and Felder/Hammer, either natively or by specification, that alone shouldn't stand in your way to choose either.

[Mike Wilkins]

Great advice from all responders. In my 16 X 32 foot shop could only fit a short stroke slider so I installed a Laguna 6 foot short slider. The limited width of my shop means that the carriage is not attached to the wagon full time; just installed when needed. it stores easily on some wall hooks. The sawing operation keeps your digits safely away from the blade for peace of mind.
I don't often rip with the slider as I have managed to shoe-horn a standard cabinet saw in the shop with a glue line rip blade on it most of the time. But ripping is not a problem if needed.

[Carl Beckett]

I transitioned to a slider from a cabinet. Some non expert thoughts:

I dont feel it takes any more, or less space. On the cabinet saw I had an outfeed that also served as a downdraft sanding table. On the slider I do not have this (am fine giving it up).

Short stroke is enough. Get a track saw to do longer pieces and sheet good breakdown. I have on occasion just used the slider to rip by feeding it through like any other saw against the fence. It works.

The fence is less important, since once the piece is positioned to the cut line it is held on the carriage and safer for it to no longer touch the fence. Over time, the
F&F jig and other layout has taken over indexing/positioning off the fence. For me at least.

Many of your cabinet saw fixtures will not work on the slider. This could be as simple as the miter slot not fitting, or in the right location, to not having the same top surface. I have been modifying some of these to be used on the slider (like box joint jig, and Incra miter), but not everyone can modify (I also have metal working equipment). Consider what jigs and fixtures you use a lot - and how you might perform that work with the slider. My tenoning jig sits in the cabinet unused, but I have switched to other equipment for tenons so hasnt been an issue.

I do believe the slider is much safer overall. That is worth a lot to me (have a sticky thumb via tablesaw accident many years ago). I let my young daughter use the slider with a little oversight. The fingers and human parts stay much farther away from the blade and the workpiece is clamped more securely. If not a slider, I would have bought a Sawstop.

I tend to leave the outrigger on 100% of the time. Dont like the changeover, and I still use it for cutting longer pieces to length. Likely I could 1-2 it with a battery circ saw to rough length then finish on the slider using only the carriage. You will decide for your own workflow habits.

My saw threw the scoring belt a couple times which was a royal pain to get back on. So it stays off for periods of time. (again if you have a good track saw you might work with sheet goods less and less)

I have to say, I wasnt sure at first. Even after having it for a short time. But over time, with some learning and adjustment in my thinking and process, I will never go back to a cabinet saw unless its my only option.

$.02

Oh, and a dado blade. Research what can work on your slider. I still do not have a great solution (am curious what dado blade others are using on their slider?)

[Ed Mitchell]

am curious what dado blade others are using on their slider?

I have a Hammer slider and I'm using this Forrest dado stack:
https://www.forrestblades.com/dado-king/

[Rod Sheridan]

Carl, I’m using an FS Tools dado stack that I also use on the shaper…..Regards, Rod.

[Brian Holcombe]

Martin, Kölle and Bäuerle

[Leigh Betsch]

One benefit of the slider that I never hear is that when you aren’t using the saw the wagon can be centered so footprint is reduced considerably. You still have to provide full stroke space but when you aren’t stroking the wagon, this space is open for walk space or other use. Where a typical cabinet saw the outfeed table is always taking up the space. In my past shop I have also used the outrigger pushed up to my bandsaw to be used as the bandsaw out feed table. Again it gets slid out of the way when not needed. So in much of the time I have lots of walk or usable space around the slider saw.

[Matthew Hills]

Michael,
I'm enjoying the discussion in the thread.
For making a slider work in a shared-use garage, I thought this video was helpful to see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHGx...bNN0Did4AaABAg

[Michael Drew]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Again, thanks for the input. Many of my concerns have been mitigated with your help. I'm on a mission now. Next week I'll see which manufactures can supply me a machine. Not sure if the usual sources for tools and machines in my state sell these sliders or not. I hope they do, otherwise, freight will kill me.

Pretty much sold on getting one with the outrigger. My top two contenders at this point are the Hammer Winner (79X48) and the MiniMax SC2C. The Felder K500 is also a favorite, but most likely outside my price point. (I love the option to get blade angle and height indication in the handles.)

Besides having the wagon to walk around, I need to consider the actual table. If it protrudes too far to the front and / or rear, that will drive me nuts having to constantly walk around it. I have a support piece on my tables saw now, that sticks out about 12" to support my crosscut sled. That damn thing constantly tries to gorge me.....

Brian Burns - I'm disappointed to hear about electrical issues with Felder. I was leaning towards the Felder K500, thinking it might be a higher quality machine than others. Thanks for sharing. Living in a remote area, it's important that my stuff work. It's time consuming, and expensive, to have to troubleshoot and replace parts. One good thing about my 'old' Unisaw, I have not had to fix anything. It just works, every time.

I know it's critical to a slider's operation that it be level. This will be a challenge, as it simply cannot remain fixed. I'll have to figure out how to build a mobile base with four corner leveling feet. My garage floor has a center drain, and is sloped to the drain. (in colder climates, like where I live, you do not slope the floor to run out the OH doors, cause the water will freeze).

[Brian Holcombe]

I would buy Minimax over felder.

[Jim Becker]

Michael, both SCM/MiniMax and Felder/Hammer are not tools that you'll generally find in "stores", although there are some distributors for the former out there. Erik can point you to the Felder resource for your geography and I suggest you contact Sam Blasco for SCM/Minimax. He's the brand champion for the US and physically not to far away from Austin TX. Erik is coincidentally in the Austin area, too. IE...shipping is part of the process. Freight isn't as much as you'd expect compared to the cost/value of the tool, however.

[Rod Sheridan]

The Hammer machines also have gauges available in the hand wheels, Felder and Hammer have many options available to build the exact machine you want.

My Hammer B3 Winner was custom built for me with the options I wanted such as dado, short stroke slider with outrigger, precision mitre index system etc. I also have the 30mm shaper spindle as well as the 1 1/4” spindle….Very handy as I can share tooling between the saw and shaper….Regards, Rod.