Slider Table Saws to consider?

[Brian Burns VT]

That kind of usage shouldn't be an issue for either of those machines but there are "hobbyist hours" and then there are "production shop hours". What I observe is that home ww'ers generally maintain their equipment a lot better than that most shops. So, while something like 500 hobbyist hours on a Hammer K3 is probably no big deal, 500 shop hours would be and a K3 is definitely not geared for a production environment. Again, not quarterbacking your specific situation but just sharing what I have seen. F700s are our smallest Felder shapers and what I would categorize as an entry-level professional unit at most. Out of curiosity, what were the electrical issues you experienced?

Erik

Erik, the stop switches on the saw have crapped out MANY times and we've been back and forth using the master power as an off switch which is annoying and unsafe probably. Currently we have the off switch on the front of the saw functioning and control it from there. The slider-side switch is out of the mix. There were a couple failures of the 'on' switch as well but those haven't reemerged forever. The shaper has had the 'off' switch go countless times but the more persistent problem is the limit switch on the up/down. When we got the machine, we used to zero out the height so that we could have easy and repeatable set ups on all of our cutters - just a height, cutter direction and fence setting for everything so operators didn't have to fuss around. After that limit switch kept crapping out, Felder told us to stop bottoming out the spindle so we no longer zero out or lower the spindle beyond what is necessary. Currently, the up/down buttons don't function (it's our third go around on this and the micro adjust 'up' button hasn't worked for a long time). We are using a 9.6V battery from a cordless drill and putting the wires in the contacts to raise and lower the spindle. It works but ain't the best for micro adjusting. More art than science I guess!

[Erik Loza]

Brian, that does sound frustrating. A few thoughts:

-The switches on Hammer machines are pretty light-duty and again, more for the home shop than seeing many actuations per day. Not surprising to me that the machine is struggling in that kind of environment. It really sounds like you need a beefier machine. I've got plenty of Felder sliders in shops and that's not a complaint I hear about.

-On the shaper, many of the same thoughts but "yes", not a good idea to bottom out the spindle unless at all necessary. Also, any time Power-Drive is involved, part of the MRO protocol should be regular inspection and cleaning of that raise/lower assembly, inspection of the limiter stops, etc. Perhaps you already are doing this.

My takeway is that you just need more robust machines.

Erik

[Michael Drew]

As suspected, holidays have many folks on vacation this week. Sam Blasco did however reach out to me and get me some basic info on the 2C and 3C. We will talk more next week. One thing of note, is the 2C does not have Dado capability. It appears that one needs to move up to the 3C to get Dado. I'll see if the 2C can be ordered with this, or if it's a hard no. But, if I do have to move to the 3C, the price point moves too. There is a $2500 jump in price between the two. At that price point, the Felder K500P is the MiniMax SC-3C closest competitor.

[Erik Loza]

Michael, be aware: An SC2 or SC3 is basically the Italian equivalent of what you already own. In other words, hobby machines. You're only switching brands, not stepping up. My honest advice is to go bigger since you are a production shop. If Italian, at least an SC4 Elite or if Felder, K500. I have a number of K500's in local shops and guys love them. Zero reliability issues.

Erik

R&R Cabinets K500S.jpg

[Michael Drew]

Michael, be aware: An SC2 or SC3 is basically the Italian equivalent of what you already own. In other words, hobby machines. You're only switching brands, not stepping up. My honest advice is to go bigger since you are a production shop. If Italian, at least an SC4 Elite or if Felder, K500. I have a number of K500's in local shops and guys love them. Zero reliability issues.

Erik

R&R Cabinets K500S.jpg

Thank you sir. Appreciate the input.

I should however clarify a point. I'm by no means a production shop. Weekend warrior at best, and not a very good one.... I've just outgrown my Unisaw, (along with my other machines). Long story short, I want a sliding table. I looked into the attachments, then new, higher end table saws with sliding attachments, and came to the conclusion that I should just buy a real sliding table saw.

When I retire, I do plan to spend a lot more time woodworking, and it'll be in a dedicated shop - not a two car garage. That's a couple years down the road though.

[Erik Loza]

Michael: Whoops, sorry. I got you mixed up with a different poster in another thread. Please disregard. Any of those machines should be fine for your needs. FYI that Felder has a main office and service techs on the West Coast, which I feel is an advantage. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

As suspected, holidays have many folks on vacation this week. Sam Blasco did however reach out to me and get me some basic info on the 2C and 3C. We will talk more next week. One thing of note, is the 2C does not have Dado capability. It appears that one needs to move up to the 3C to get Dado. I'll see if the 2C can be ordered with this, or if it's a hard no. But, if I do have to move to the 3C, the price point moves too. There is a $2500 jump in price between the two. At that price point, the Felder K500P is the MiniMax SC-3C closest competitor.

The SC3C also comes with a lot of the desirable accessories in the package that are extra cost with the SC2C if you buy the standard packages. That accounts for a lot of the price difference. Sam will explain that to you when you speak.

[Kevin Jenness]

If you can possibly keep your Unisaw, do so. You will be able to use all the jigs you have, rip long pieces more conveniently or set it up with a dado (which is a bit of a pain on the sliders I have used). You may be able to squeeze it in feeding opposite the slider at the end of or beside or even replacing the outfeed table.

If you have a cad program it is easy to draw and move around models of the saws and their feed paths, if not you can make a scale drawing and move cardstock models around on paper to find workable setups.

[Michael Drew]

I do not have the space for the slider, and certainly not enough for both. It's a matter of needing to move the saw, and all other machines around the garage. I'm working around a four wheeler that I use for snow removal right now.....

Good thought though, and one I already worked through.

[Michael Drew]

Sam and I have bounced emails back and forth regarding the SCM saws. The Minimax SC 2C cannot be ordered with the dado. This 'upgrade' to the other machines is a $600 option. Sam also told me the SC 3C is a beefier saw than that the 2C. It is roughly 250 pounds heavier, and has the 4.8 HP motor, verse the 3.4 HP motor on the 2C. It also comes with a second, larger miter, second support table, and a more robust outrigger. The 3C will be available this spring, whereas the Felder machines are available in August.

I think at this point in my waffling between machines, my two top contenders are the Felder K500 and SCM SC 3C. Buy once, cry once......

I'm not too impressed with either brand's standard blade guard. I know that either would drive me nuts and I'd just remove them. But I do like how both brands floating guard/dust collector set-up looks. They are quite similar, and both cost around a grand. Any thoughts from users of either? Or possibly an aftermarket device that might work better?

Once thing I do like about the Minimax saw, is that I can still use all my 10" blades and dado's - and I have many. And on paper, I think the SCM motors may have the advantage. The K500 footprint is smaller, so that's a point for Felder.

[Jim Becker]

Michael, unless something changes, I'll likely be going with the SC3C since it's what I'm used to, but either machine you are cite is excellent. It sounds like things remain consistent around SC2C and SC3C from when I last interacted with Sam, too.

Relative to the standard blade guard, I'm right there with you. I never used it on the S315WS because of it being riving knife attached. My plan is to use an overarm setup with the new saw when I buy it...I'm actually considering the Grizzly for just under $500 as it will do the job and is a pleasing color. It's also stand-alone so it's easy to get out of the way.

[Mike Kees]

Rod Sheridan mounted an aftermarket blade guard on his Hammer slider. There was a thread on here somewhere with pictures and how it worked out.

[Mo Ghotbi]

I've been very happy with my Hammer K3 Winner with the 79 inch stroke. It came standard with the outrigger table and the scoring motor. I've had it now for 5 years and could not be happier. Since I have room in the garage, I kept the old Grizzly cabinet saw I had mostly for dadoes. I've heard great things about the SMC machines but Felder is located near me here in Northern California and so I though tech support would be easier.

[Michael Drew]

I thought I had made my decision, but now I’m not sure. The SC 3C will be a tight fit. Also, shipping quotes are coming in about $1500 more to get the SCM machines to me, over the Felder/Hammer machines. I started this adventure with a max budget of $7500, then stretched it, stretched again….. Now I’m back to getting what I actually need, verse want. This hobby is a slippery slope…….

I checked out the Grizzley guard and found a picture of Rod Sherman's (Excelsior). Both look much better than what comes standard with either the Hammer/Felder or SCM saws. I gotta admit though, the add-on accessory guards that both companies offer looks great, assuming it can easily be piped separately from the below blade dust collection. It's nice to know there are less costly options though.

Anyone with the Hammer saws care to offer what they did with respect to blades and dado sets? I probably have at least six premium Forest and Ridge Carbide blades, all recently sharpened - plus my dado sets. I know they are 'only' 10", but it seems pretty wasteful, and costly, to peddle them and buy new blades for the Felder/Hammer machines. Is the bore actually different that 5/8"? I also understand that the saw blades for Felder/Hammer have two additional holes to prevent them from backing off when the motor brakes. Is that a true statement?

[Jim Becker]

The Hammer/Felder machines do not use 5/8" bore or even 1" bore tooling. if I"m not mistaken, it's a 30mm bore plus the two guide/index holes. Felder brand's dado solution is a little different. On the 10" vs 12"...I did used 10" blades for a bit on the MiniMax slider I had in my old shop, but eventually moved to 12" blades. it was more efficient relative to tip speed and, of course, cutting depth.