Sliding Table Saw - Why Slider Above Table?

[johnny means]

In 20 years, I've never seen the difference be big enough to have any discernible affect.

[Leigh Betsch]

I put a couple of pieces of tape under the aluminum throat insert when I use my dado stack. But I leave my normal throat insert screwed down flush to the cast iron for most of my work.

[Mike King]

It's woodworking, not precision metal machining.

[Warren Lake]

on a smaller slider like my SCM the cross cut fence will scrape on the table if the carriage is not higher than the table, table needs to be as flat as possible for the same reason

[Ronald Blue]

No dog in this fight but it would seem the error as has been pointed out should be very slight. Which brings me to this question. Are you certain your blade was absolutely at 90 degrees and is the slider only .010 or is it more than it should be? The other thought is run it over the jointer if it's out of square enough to be an issue. But I would be checking things to see why it's enough to be an issue.

[Mark e Kessler]

Adjusting your equipment to be the best that it can be is something that I enjoy, does it need to be done? Not if you your happy with your results, some folks are ok with average and thats ok as well.

[Mark e Kessler]

No dog in this fight but it would seem the error as has been pointed out should be very slight. Which brings me to this question. Are you certain your blade was absolutely at 90 degrees and is the slider only .010 or is it more than it should be? The other thought is run it over the jointer if it's out of square enough to be an issue. But I would be checking things to see why it's enough to be an issue.

To me it is important to have the blade as close to 90deg on both sides, sometimes that means making a compromise and splitting the difference. In my experience getting perfect 90 at full blade height on a slider is difficult, in the end i rely on the actual cuts that i get to check 90 than what my square against the blade may show.

The process I discussed in setting up a slider isn't totally necessary if you are happy with your results, the only way i can be happy with my results is to take out all the variables so when something doesn’t go right i know where not to look first. For example the chances that the cast table has a twist is pretty slim on a European build saw but guess what, my 20k saw table did have a twist in it - does anyone here know what happens when you have a twist in your table on a slider? You can’t dial in the height and possibly to coplanarity of the slider, you will be constantly chasing measurement of the slider height.

it only takes a few minutes the check the twist and then you are done forever (in most cases) and you have just eliminated one unknown…

[Howard Dean]

IÂ’m vacillating between a regular table saw and a sliding table saw. IÂ’m considering a saw stop and a hammer k3,

I currently live in a condo in an urban area, but am building a house with a modest sized (525 sq ft) workshop. My current “workshop” consists of lugging portable tools onto our roof deck. I face joint boards using a hand plane (and then run them through a lunchbox planer) and do edge jointing with a track saw. For ripping and cross cutting wood I also use a track saw (I have two, a Festool 55 and a Maffel 55). Depending on the size of the boards, I either use saw horses or a small (5x3) portable mft I built using a parf guide. I have lots of mft accesories (dogs, clamps, fences, parallel guides, squares, etc.).

For the soon-to-be new shop I am planning on building a large (4x8) mft/router table/out feed table), and outfitting the shop with a table saw, a cabinet planer, a drill press, a lathe, a band saw and dust collection (I donÂ’t need a jointer because IÂ’ve gotten used to face jointing and edge jointing with a hand plane/track saw). I plan on having all of the machines on mobile bases.

The question is the following: given that IÂ’ll have a well-outfitted mft table, whatÂ’s the value added in buying a sliding table saw versus a regular table saw? IÂ’m currently a hobbiest who works mainly with 6/4 to 8/4 hardwoods (tables, benches and other furniture), but would like to get good enough to sell some pieces (I mainly build for ourselves, family and friends). I will also need to build a lot cabinets and other storage for walk-in closets and other areas.

Views?

[Jim Becker]

Howard, there are quite a few discussions about the merits of a true slider. My own reasons include precision/repeatability and safety. Even if I had to downsize to the smallest slider, I'd still choose it over a North American design cabinet saw because of my personal preferences.

[Matt Culik]

@Howard Dean

Lucky you! Building and outfitting a new shop!

My story is somewhat similar. When my wife and I got married, we had a house that wasn't big enough to have a dedicated woodworking space. So, I bought a bunch of Festool and did my woodworking on the driveway. Five years later, we bought the house I'm in now, which has a 600 square foot dedicated shop. For several years, the tool budget was reallocated to other things, and I was happy that I didn't have to carry my tools outside to work and could work on bad weather days, so I didn't buy any big machines.

A year ago or so, I stumbled upon a good deal for a used Grizzly G0623X sliding table saw and bought it on a whim. It took a bunch of fiddling, but I've now got dialed in now to the point that it's absolutely dead-on for the level of woodworking I do.

Long story short, the slider is, in my opinion, miles better than a MFT and TS55. To the point that I actually sold my MFT because I wanted the floor space back. Since selling my MFT, which is a decision I'm still happy I made, there are precisely two things I miss about it:

1. The dog holes for clamping stuff for sanding, assembly, etc. My current work table doesn't have dog holes, but that will be fixed during an upcoming project...
2. The ability to clamp things vertically against the aluminum rails, which is hyper-helpful in certain situations. This is also part of my upcoming project...

From a cutting perspective, I STRONGLY prefer the slider. It's easier, faster, more accurate, etc., etc. At this point, the only thing I use my TS55 for is ripping 4x8 sheets because my slider isn't big enough to easily/accurately handle these. And I've actually started using a lot more 5x5 Baltic birch because of how easily panels of this size are worked on the slider.

BUT...two things...

1. I don't have experience with "shop-grade" cabinet saws. Growing up, we had a Bosch contractor saw, and large panels and long pieces had to be man-handled and often required "touching-up" to be usable. So, I'm not sure how far apart a "shop-grade" cabinet saw and a "lower end" (meaning not a $30K, digitally controlled Martin or whatever) slider are in real life, but I can tell you it would take a LOT of convincing to get me to give having a slider.

2. Sliders inherently take a up a LOT of space (not just the machine itself, but the dedicated clearway for the slider to slide). Even my little Grizzly in my 600 square foot shop is a space hog. Granted, my tractor is often parked in the shop and my work table is too big (I made it 4x8 so I could put full sheets on it when I only had the TS55), but I often find myself shimmying around the fence (or hooking my jeans on it) and generally wishing I had more space...but not wishing so much that I'm even remotely considering getting rid of the slider.

One last piece of advice you didn't ask for...;-) Take note of where the power switch is on that Hammer slider you're considering. My biggest gripe with the Grizzly is that the location of the switch SUCKS! After I've set up a big cut, I have to walk around the sliding table to the other side of the blade and reach under the sliding table to turn the saw on. And by the time I've done that, the piece has inevitably moved just a tiny bit, which means I have to reset the cut while the blade is turning. This is something that should be relatively easy to fix on my well-used Grizzly, but I'd be annoyed if I had to modify by brand new Hammer.

Good luck with the build and outfitting!

[ChrisA Edwards]

To Howard Dean, I have a very nice Sawstop setup, and even though I have the ICS mobile base, it sits in a permanent location.

My outfeed is positioned towards the garage door and can cut 9' before I have to open the door.

This allows me to have an outfeed table, that will support an 8' rip, without additional support, and still walk between the outfeed table and the garage door.

And as much space as it consumes, only the smallest slider would consume less.

I've lusted after a slider for years, and now if I was buying my first saw, I think I'd make one fit although it would be compromised in stroke, i.e. don't think I could fit one that will rip 8' or longer.

So my work around for processing sheet goods is a MFT style top that sits on top of a workbench. It's slightly larger than my workbench which allows me to overhang the workbench and use the through dog hole clamps where necessary. I can crosscut 36", using a tracksaw, something I cannot do with my genuine MFT table.

I also have a sheet of 2" pink foam, broken down into four 2' x 4' sections, for storage, that I lay on the floor and then break sheets of plywood/MDF down using the tracksaw.

First saw, if budget permits, get a slider.

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks for the input, Just got off the phone with the sales rep who was trying to convince me on the merits of choosing the 79x48. My shop will be about 26’ long and 22’ wide, which should accommodate the larger footprint. I’ve seen posts by people who say to go bigger if at all possible. Any views? Another question I have concerns using the rip fence for repeat rip cuts. The sales rep explained (which I have read) that the slider sits just a bit above the table. The rep said that this doesn’t affect squareness of rip cuts, which I find hard to believe. One option is to lower the slider to be even with the table. What have others done? I understand that you can use the rip fence as a stop, but how do you then ensure repeatability?

[Jim Becker]

The intermediate size wagon certainly has merits with processing project components. I believe the size you are considering is what Stever Wurster has and it's a very nice machine. His shop is smaller than yours, AFAIK. I'm considering a similar sized short stroke for when I get a new shop building up.

[Mike Stelts]

I just installed a new KF700S. The slider is .020 above the table at the blade and .030 at the far edge (i.e. it's not coplaner). The worst dip I can find in the table is .0015, and the slider runs within .005 at the blade across 120". My goal is to set this up once and never dicker with it again. While the machine is officially out of spec, Felder says must pay for alignment.

Do folks recommend I leave it alone (close enough), pay big bucks for the alignment, or dedicate a day following Felder's Sliding Table Calibration Instructions and David Best's book and videos?

[Mark e Kessler]

If they send the right tech you could be up and running sooner than later but I would do it yourself. IT will be a pain, you will be frustrated at times but you will know the machine better and more than likely it will need adjustment down the road as you get experienced with the saw and want to tweak it.

I would forget about specs for now, if it is working (obviously do some tuning like square fences) just use it you might be fine with the way it is and thats all that matters