Flat Bandsaw Tires - lower tracking

[Evan Van Dyke]

I just got a new bandsaw (Rikon 10-347), and will have some learning to do, as it's my first saw with flat, as opposed to crowned wheels. I know that I'm supposed to hang the teeth off the front edge of the wheel (as opposed to in the center of the wheel as I did with crowned wheels). My question is how am I supposed to deal with the lower wheel? When I adjust the tracking on the top wheel, the blade is more or less centered on the lower wheel. Should I spend the time to adjust the lower wheel's tracking with the 4 adjustment bolts to do the same there? I know with a crowned wheel the lower tracking doesn't matter too much; is the same with flat wheels?

Thanks!

[Tom Trees]

Hello
First thing that you should check I suppose, is if the top wheel shaft is tight, should it be adjustable.
So check that off the list.

Sounds like you need to adjust the jacking bolts on the machine.
Basically the more the shaft is adjusted to the 6 o'clock position, the further the blade tracks forward, it only needs a wee half turn.
Note adjustment is done with tension off the band, and you better have the belt loose, and not run it yet, just hand tracking it for the minute.

Manufacturers advise not going near the bottom wheel, and for good measure.
You might as well write some figures down of the bolt lengths, your tracking knob, and your belt adjustment before you start.
You need a way of making sure the bottom wheel is aligned, depending how large of a track on the hub for the belt is,
it may be more important for the sake of your motor bearings.
I had to replace bearings on my machine, after running the machine without a blade installed, for only a second.
Two reasons why this happened.
I foolish used a different datum than the top wheel to adjust the east west/position.
The second was that I fitted a new belt, the exact same, but it was much much tighter, and made the vibration damaged my bearings in about two seconds.

There are a few ways of checking
If one has a straight edge, a block and some tape, then they can fashion a beam for resting on the wheels,
The widest suitable blade should be used, and tensioned adequately for the job.
I made a youtube with this when aligning the wheels and troubleshooting my Italian machine
Still have to get around to sorting out some issues with my top wheel, as there is something needs fixing there.
Top wheel parallel check.jpghttps://postimg.cc/MMFxVJf7

You can't clamp this beam to the wheel, as you need to track the blade with every adjustment, some magnets would be nice, should you not have a helper
if the span of the wheels is large.
SAM_4595.jpghttps://postimg.cc/sGd6tTkF

You can use the beam for checking your wheels are in line with the column and to check for coplanar.
The east/west is important, and a wee bit of north south adjustment is fine after that, should the blade need to be where you want.

You should be able to sight your eye along the belt to make sure nothing funny is goin on
Make sure you test run without a blade, and make sure your drive belt is loose, as a misalignment will exaggerate with a tight belt greatly.


Should you want to keep the table on, you might wish to try using a laser to align with the top wheel, should you have the space and the kit.
Riverbuilder has a video on that, not tried this craic with a laser before.

Another wee snippet from the bandsaw forum elsewhere, was the suggestion to hand turn the wheels backwards, and see if the blade stays put, or walks off the wheels.
Not sure if this applies to crowned or flat tires though, eager to see when I get back to fixing my saw.

Good luck
Tom

[Andrew Hughes]

Never ever touch those four bolts in the back of the lower wheel. The only exception is to check the jam nuts are tight.
or if your restoring the saw.
My saw has flat tire most blades sit where they want on the lower wheel.
Good Luck

[Mike Kees]

Evan what Andrew said. Very important to NOT mess with the lower wheel especially before working through every other possible solution first. I used to own a Steel City 18'' saw. That machine was made in Taiwan. It had adjustments built in for every moving part that you would ever need to adjust. Check out your top wheel mechanism closely there may be adjustment available there. The wheels on your machine should be in the same plane (coplanar). Hopefully you can arrive at that without touching the bottom wheel. I have been there and messed with my bottom wheel. Yes it moves things, however it is very very finicky and there is a learning curve that goes straight up almost to infinity. One needs to have mechanical aptitude and be extremely observant to do this. Patience and the ability to make very minute adjustments with constant observation of what is changing is key. Once I opened pandora's box it took me two days of trial and error and error to get it right. I did learn everything there is to learn about adjusting bandsaws with that machine, it performed excellent after I got everything aligned right.

[Lee Schierer]

I just got a new bandsaw (Rikon 10-347), and will have some learning to do, as it's my first saw with flat, as opposed to crowned wheels. I know that I'm supposed to hang the teeth off the front edge of the wheel (as opposed to in the center of the wheel as I did with crowned wheels). My question is how am I supposed to deal with the lower wheel? When I adjust the tracking on the top wheel, the blade is more or less centered on the lower wheel. Should I spend the time to adjust the lower wheel's tracking with the 4 adjustment bolts to do the same there? I know with a crowned wheel the lower tracking doesn't matter too much; is the same with flat wheels?

Thanks!

The Rikon 10-347 owners manual on page 13 says: "Open both doors. Loosen the lock lever (A-Fig.12) by
turning it counter clockwise and turn the blade tracking
knob (B-Fig.12) clockwise/counterclockwise while turning
the upper wheel by hand at least three rotations or until
the blade tracks centered on the wheel. Finally, tighten the
lock lever and close the doors."

I would say that as long as the teeth are not hanging off the lower wheel you are good to go. Don't create problems where they may not exist. Run your saw for a bit before you start changing factory set ups. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Erik Loza]

Think of it like this: The lower wheel is your fixed pivot point while the upper wheel is your dynamic tracking adjustment. Regarding the lower wheel clock bolts, a lot of folks seem to think it’s some sort of voodoo to mess with those. This hasn’t been my experience. Sure, you obviously want to try to make the tracking adjustments with the upper wheel but I had more than one machine where a 1” blade was too far back on the tire for my taste, so made an adjustment to the lower wheel. It’s nothing to be scared of.
A08519D1-2590-473A-ABE8-30D5824F43D7.jpg

Erik

[John TenEyck]

Bandsaws are simple machines; no more mysterious than any other and less than many. Chances are it came with the wheels aligned properly from the factory, but there's only one way to know and that's to check to see if they are coplaner. It's a simple enough process. Remove the table and hold a straight edge against the wheels on each side of center. You may need to cut out some of the straight edge to fit around other parts of the machine. A C shaped piece of plywood worked well for me.

The top and bottom rim of both wheels should be in one plane on both sides of center. If they are not then you need to figure out why. If the top wheel sits forward or behind the bottom wheel then you may be able to add or subtract shims. If it sits forward and there are no shims that can be removed then you have no choice but to move the bottom wheel forward. There's no mystery here. Loosen the jam nuts and turn each bolt the same amount until the lower wheel is coplaner with the upper. Then retighten the jam nuts. If the problem is the upper wheel is cocked left or right from the lower wheel then you need to measure the distance from the rim of the wheel on both sides of center to the rear housing, or some other constant reference plane, on both the top and bottom wheels to find out which one is cocked. If the bottom wheel is cocked then it was not set up properly at the factory. Follow the directions in your owner's manual, or call tech support, to get it sorted out.

Once you have the bottom wheel square in the frame and both wheels coplaner then adjust the table so the miter slot is parallel with the blade, as should be outlined in your owner's manual.

John

[John K Jordan]

I just got a new bandsaw (Rikon 10-347), and will have some learning to do, as it's my first saw with flat, as opposed to crowned wheels. I know that I'm supposed to hang the teeth off the front edge of the wheel (as opposed to in the center of the wheel as I did with crowned wheels). My question is how am I supposed to deal with the lower wheel? When I adjust the tracking on the top wheel, the blade is more or less centered on the lower wheel. Should I spend the time to adjust the lower wheel's tracking with the 4 adjustment bolts to do the same there? I know with a crowned wheel the lower tracking doesn't matter too much; is the same with flat wheels?
Thanks!

Ok, I'm confused. From the specs and manual the Rikon 10-347 requires the blade to track in the center of the tire.

Does your bandsaw have tires and are they really flat tires? Could they be slightly crowned? I use the 10-345 18" Rikon which is very similar in design. The tires on mine look flat to the eye but holding a straight edge on across a tire shows they are very slightly crowned. (I'd post a picture but as a "member" instead of a "contributor" I don't think you can view it.) Once things are adjusted, this crown is what keeps the blade tracking properly.

If the wheels on yours are made like mine with tires sitting in a wheel with cast iron rims all the way around, running the blade with teeth off the front edge can destroy the set and sharpness very quickly if they contact the metal rim.
Perhaps your bandsaw is designed differently from what Rikon describes in the manual they offer for download. If so, don't bother reading the rest of this.

I downloaded and reviewed the manual for the model number you gave:

10-347 bandsaw
https://www.rikontools.com/manuals/10-347.pdf

This is stated clearly:

The blade should track in the center of the tire.
On page 13:
TRACKING THE BANDSAW BLADE Cont.
Open both doors. Loosen the lock lever (A-Fig.12) by
turning it counter clockwise and turn the blade tracking
knob (B-Fig.12) clockwise/counterclockwise while turning
the upper wheel by hand at least three rotations or until
the blade tracks centered on the wheel. Finally, tighten the
lock lever and close the doors


The instructions also clearly state the blade should track in the center of the lower tire.

Page 24 and Page 25 show how to adjust the four bolts on back of the saw at the lower wheel axle so the blade will track correctly on the lower wheel. That's what they are for. I had to adjust mine when setting up my 18" Rikon.
Look at the pictures on page 24 in the manual. The photos show the Incorrect and Correct tracking.


LOWER WHEEL ADJUSTMENTS
The following instructions will correct common blade issues related to the lower wheel’s alignment in
relation to the upper wheel. These adjustments will correct the blade position on the lower wheel and
blade oscillation (wobble). These are critical adjustments which affect the performance and accuracy
of the bandsaw


On Page 24
If a blade is tracking forward on the lower wheel
toward the door, follow these correction steps:
(adjustment of the four bolts)
...
On Page 25
If a blade is tracking on the rear of the lower wheel, away from the door, follow these steps:
(adjustment of the four bolts)
...

If your saw is designed differently from the Rikon 10-347 manual in the I gave link above, then never mind.

JKJ

[Edwin Santos]

IME, the hanging off the edge thing is applicable only to bandsaws with truly flat tires, and even then, only for the wider blades. You didn't mention what blade width you are trying to track. If is under 1", then I would track in the center. I usually let the lower wheel track where it chooses like someone else has mentioned. Unless the lower wheel tracking is dangerously close to coming off the wheel, don't worry too much about it. I think the most important thing is to see how it cuts. If it is cutting to your satisfaction and the blade is not coming off the wheels, then what's the problem?

[Bernie Kopfer]

I have this saw, bought in Oct 2019. I’ve followed the manual and track my blades centered on the to p wheel. That said I’ve only used two blades, a 1/2” green blade and a 1” trimaster. After I got the blade tracking centered on the upper wheel I carefully followed the instructions and centered the blade also on the lower wheel. Adjustment was easy. I’ve changed between blades several times and tracking remains consistent. I suggest you call the Rikon service dept and discuss centered vs off the front with them. I’ve found them to be helpful and most importantly, wanting to help. Let us know what they say, since the manual advice is “contrary” to common practice. ( Great saw isn’t it?)

[Erik Loza]

If the tires aren't truly flat, what I said still stands but the machine will be much fussier to dial-in if you do start from scratch with the lower wheel. I never understood why manufacturers still put crowned or slightly crowned wheels on bandsaws. Flat wheels make everything a million times easier.

Erik