Hand Saws: advice for a novice

[Dan Gaylin]

Thank you all for taking the time to give me very helpful and informative advice and suggestions. A lot to think about but I understand the options much better. Really appreciate it. It will be fun and a great learning experience to try a few and see what works for me.

[Rob Luter]

Since you only have 15 opinions I'll chime in

My basic kit has a couple of old Disston D8 handsaws for knocking down lumber. One rip and one crosscut. They don't get used frequently but are nice to have when needed. They were antique store finds that I had sharpened. I also have backsaws for joinery in both crosscut (Carcass saw) and rip (Dovetail saw and Tenon saw). These were purchased new (Lie Nielsen) and get used much more often. I have a couple special purpose saws too (flush cut and razor saw).

The backstory: The five core saws are the leftovers from an accumulation of about 25 different saws. Yes, I had a saw problem. I had a really nice Japanese Ryoba and a Dozuki, but couldn't get the hang of them. I had some small western style panel saws and lots of other backsaws too, in both Rip and Crosscut. I thought I needed a special saw for everything. I sold the lot of them to finance the LN backsaws. The simple kit does all I need. The quality is good and they function very well. I've moved on from user/collector to just user.

[Stew Denton]

Dan,

My background with saws is carpentry, although it has been more than 45 years since I worked full time for a carpenter. None the less, I have done carpentry on and off, although not for pay, ever since. Mostly building stuff, and working on houses of ours, friends, and family. So, I have used carpentry type saws for a long time, and although I have power saws, I prefer hand saw most of the time. The exception to this is if doing things where speed and effort are factors, but high accuracy are not needed, such as when I built the trusses for my shed of a few years ago, etc.

I can't speak about the Japanese saws since I have never used one, but can speak about carpentry type hand saws.

Saw length is not a big deal for woodworking, and I have used panel saws (carpentry type saws of length 24 inches and less) as short as 16 inches, and saws up to length 28 inches.

The short saws (bought for my grandchildren to use) can do the job, but are slower due to having to use very short strokes, (They are slow enough to be a little irritating to me, but are handy when working on short planks and sawhorses where you have little room on the bench to set stuff.) I like regular length carpentry saw of 26 inches, although that may be due to having mostly used that length for such a long time. Carpenters mostly used 26 inch saws, so those are extremely available on the used market. That said, I think 24 inch panel saws are just fine, and do not feel even slightly handicapped when using one, although for ripping a 26 inch or a 28 length is nicer. Some folks have some problems with the longer saws hitting the floor when working on sawhorses and planks, but it doesn't take long to learn to avoid that problem. Obviously the 28 inch saws are worse in that regard.

As far as type and tooth count go, if I only had two saws for woodworking, I would want a rip saw and a crosscut saw. Steven and Rob have similar ideas to mine. The carpentry saws are primarily used to break the lumber down to work with, although for carpentry I do some finish work with such on things like fitting window sills, etc.

The tooth count on a hand saw depends on it's intended use. For framing with 2X4s, etc., when we did at least part of that with hand saws, you want a smaller tooth count on your hand saws, because beauty of the cut is not important, but quickness of cut is. Thus for that, we used primarily 8 point cross cut saws back then. However, for making a better looking cut for finish work I liked a 12 point crosscut. The higher tooth count makes for a smoother cut at the expense of cutting speed, but even so, a sharp 12 point saw will still cut fairly quickly.

For ripping, you want a lower tooth count, with something like a 4&1/2 point being fairly popular for carpentry work. However, part of the time you might want to do finish work ripping, and for that I really like my old 7 point. A 4 to 5 point rip saw will cut faster, but again will give a rougher appearing cut. However folks like Christopher Schwarz recommend such, but I think that they are only using the rip to break down larger lumber before using planes, etc.

With regard to length, for ripping, a longer saw is nice, because ripping by hand can get to be work, and the longer tooth line make it go faster. I think a 24 inch would be OK (I don't have a 24 in rip so can't speak from actual ripping experience with one), but like my 26 inch. When you see used saws, the overwhelming number of 28 inch saws you see are rip saws, and the extra tooth length is nice when ripping. However, again, my experience with a 24 inch cross cut saw makes me believe that a 24 inch rip would not be too much of a problem for woodworking. If I did a lot of ripping for carpentry (not common any more) I would prefer a 28 inch.

I like older hand saws. Back when all of the work was done with hand saws, the big manufactures made really good saws, because quality was important to folks who used hand saws a lot. The handles were more finely shaped and nicely rounded to fit the hand, etc. Even the less expensive lines were still pretty good saws, in my opinion. The number 7 was one of Disston's lower prices saws, I have a few, and they are good saws. I have several brands of old saws, and think them all to be good. I have too many hand saws, as folks might too say that I also have a saw problem. Given that, I will not buy any more carpenters type saws unless a Disston #12 comes along for a bargain price. That said, older handsaws from almost any maker should be good, based on my experience.

If you buy an older saw (I like the pre 1928 Disston saws simply because I know more about Disston saws than any other brand,) be picky. Get one in decent shape, look for one that is dead straight or extremely close to such. (Hold the saw up like you were sighting down a length of 2X4 to check how straight it is and sight along the tooth line.) Look for one with very minimal pitting. A fine layer of very light rust or browning can be easily removed with something like fine sandpaper, but pits are a different matter. Check out the handle, and chips that are not to deep on the horns can be sanded out, and don't hurt anything, however, you see some with the horns completely broken off....don't buy one of those. Not having one of the horns makes the saw feel hard to control for me. Avoid one that the handle is held together with glue and screws. Check out the teeth. You want all the teeth about the same size, regularly spaced, the tooth line straight with no dips or humps in it. If the teeth are a mess, the saw will have to be re-toothed, which will cost your more.

Saws like the above should be very reasonably priced at a garage sale, and are fairly easy to restore. Pick one that won't take a ton of work to restore. When I restore one, I usually start with redishbrown Scotch Brite pads and ending with very fine sandpaper, ending up with 320 or better yet 400. I then sand the handle and usually go with Linseed oil and ending with spray lacquer, or if not in a hurry go with polyurethane. I also polish the saw nuts and plate with metal polish, and wax everything as the last step. The polyurethane is a tough long lasting finish that looks great for a long time, and is nice on the hands. (I still use the first one I restored 45+ years ago, and the polyurethane finished handle still is in really nice shape.) On the auction site or some antique stores you will pay significantly more than at a garage sale, but still a LOT less than a premium modern saw.

Spend some time looking at saws on the auction site or if you have antique stores or better yet flea markets in your area look around before you buy a saw, unless you find a beauty right off. Go to the Disston Institute on the net and look at some of the older saws. There are a ton of different Disstons, but you are most likely to see #8s or #7s so look at those carefully on the web site. I like #8s made between roughly 1900 and 1918 or so. They have really nice handle shapes. By spending time on the Disston Institute site you will be able to recognize the premium Disston saws if you stumble onto one at a bargain price (not likely, but you never know.)

At any rate if I were in your situation, I would buy a 6 point rip saw, and a 10 point cross cut saw. These are compromises. They are a bit slower than the saws designed for fast work, and don't give quite as nice an appearance as pure finish saws, but will do OK for either use. If speed is not a concern, but the resulting wood surface is, then I would go with a 7 point rip and a 12 point cross cut. For the cross cut a panel saw of 24 inches or a 26 inch saw would be fine. For the rip saw I would prefer a 26 inch saw, but a 24 inch would probably be OK, and you don't see very many 28 inch saws. If you have trouble finding a 6 or 7 point rip saw, you can buy a crosscut with that same tooth count, and it is not very tough to have it re-sharpened to rip teeth of the same tooth count.

If you have no experience with sharpening a saw pay a good saw sharpener, or do a search for saw sharpening on the net, as learning to sharpen a saw is not extremely difficult. However, it is nice to start out with a sharp saw if you have never used one, and paying to have one sharpened is worth the money. A couple of the guys on this forum are repeatedly reported as doing wonderful sharpening, and starting out with one sharpened by one of them will turn out to be a joy.

I know much of the above is very basic material, and I have not meant to offend if you already know most of the above, but wanted to start with the basics.

Regards,

Stew

[Dan Gaylin]

Thanks for the additional replies folks. Really helpful!

[Rick Dettinger]

For another take, Paul Sellers shows how to make a frame (bow) saw for the cost of a blade, and a little lumber from the scrap pile, and several feet of twine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4LohjmskEk

He then shows how to rip and cut tenons with the saw. The blade is filed as a rip saw. Works well for several cuts.

73,
Rick