Respirator captive moisture question

[Aaron Rosenthal]

I use an Elipse low profile respirator whenever I use machines, and prefer to keep it on for some time after machine use even though the shop (garage) doors are open.
Whether it’s me or the climate (Vancouver Canada) I seem to collect large amounts of moisture inside the respirator. Yes I take it off, wipe it dry and re-don it, but I’m curious about your experience.
Is this common?
I seem to remember other brands having the same issues on my face, but if the experience is mine alone, I may have to change the type of protection I use.
If moisture content is common, I’ll just bring more old towels with me into the shop

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have that problem when I'm working hard wearing my respirator, like when I was tearing out the interior of my new house this fall. Even though the temperatures were in the 40s most of the time I was breathing hard enough that it got quite wet. In the shop this normally doesn't happen except in the summer when the humidity is very high as I'm not exerting myself very much.

[Doug Garson]

I'm also in the Vancouver area, I notice moisture buildup often when I wear a respirator.

[mike stenson]

I get that, in Arizona.

[Kris Cook]

I haven't seen the problem you describe with a half-face respirator but the climate where I live is drier.

I looked up the humidity in your area and it seems January has the highest humidity. What is the temperature and humidity in your shop generally? High humidity can have a detrimental affect on the service life of filters. How often do you change your filters?

Make sure your exhalation valve(s) are working properly.

Also, as a general comment - make sure you do a positive and negative pressure check whenever you don the respirator (typically done with your hand over the exhalation valve and filter respectively).

Was going to suggest a PAPR which might help if you sweat a lot and that is the source of the moisture but if ambient humidity is contributing, probably not the way to go.

[Frank Pratt]

I get that, in Arizona.

And in Alberta, even on the driest days. It has little to do with ambient RH, but with moisture in the exhaled air.

[Kris Cook]

And in Alberta, even on the driest days. It has little to do with ambient RH, but with moisture in the exhaled air.

Frank - can you explain your reasoning? Seems to me, a respirator is in effect, a sealed environment. I realize we exhale moisture as we breathe but seems to me breathing in a higher humidity environment would increase the moisture we inhale and thus exhale. No?

I haven't work in high humidity environments, so no personal experience.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Kris, to answer your question, my garage is unheated, rainproof via a newly shingled roof, uninsulated ....in other words like a shed.

[Alan Lightstone]

Frank - can you explain your reasoning? Seems to me, a respirator is in effect, a sealed environment. I realize we exhale moisture as we breathe but seems to me breathing in a higher humidity environment would increase the moisture we inhale and thus exhale. No?

I haven't work in high humidity environments, so no personal experience.

Trying to get my head around that one. There are 12,600 papers in the scientific literature regarding exhaled breath condensate (EBC). TLDR. Most are looking at diagnosing diseases by studying it. I did find that pH of EBC changes with relative humidity.

Daily, 350 mL of water is lost through breathing and released as vapor from the airways surface. The total amount of water lost is determined from ventilation per minute, as exhaled breath is almost completely saturated with water vapor. That seems to be the key. In an environment with low relative humidity, the body loses water vapor through exhalation by saturating the inhaled gases before exhaling them at 100% RH (or whatever saturated is). That, and sweating is why humans get dehydrated more in areas with low RH compared to high RH at the same ambient temperature.

I do work in a high RH environment, and spent my career dealing with human ventilation (and circulation, and a whole bunch of other processes that keep us alive and healthy). Certainly my 3M ventilator mask gets wet when wearing it. Not at all surprised that yours does. Especially as your mask inside surface is likely cooler than your alveoli, so some of that moisture condenses before leaving the mask via the one-way valve.

Not sure if this helps, or sends us farther down the rabbit hole. My $0.02

[Kris Cook]

Certainly my 3M ventilator mask gets wet when wearing it. Not at all surprised that yours does. Especially as your mask inside surface is likely cooler than your alveoli, so some of that moisture condenses before leaving the mask via the one-way valve.

Alan obviously has more experience with this kind of stuff than I but the excerpt above coupled with the fact that your "shed" is unheated, you are going to have a tough time keeping the mask dry.

[mike stenson]

And in Alberta, even on the driest days. It has little to do with ambient RH, but with moisture in the exhaled air.

We are mostly water, after all. We exhale a large amount of moisture. This is one of the reasons people new to the desert have a hard time with dehydration. That and not noticing their sweat.

[Warren Lake]

I am more water cause of my last name. What is happening is 100 percent normal and you are likely in a cold shop you breath out warm it condenses to wet the inside of the mask. you have not lived till you are on the final spray gun pass on a project that will leave shortly and water drips out of your mask onto it. Ive seen some people put a sort of towel on the outside of the outside of the mask to catch any water. I just took it off and wiped it out often

This is the same as you can be on a table saw and if you are MR safety you have a mask, safety glasses and ear protectors. It wont take long till your glasses fog up from the breath coming out of the top of the mask. Now you cant see so will cut you fingers off. You can take your glasses off and now for sure something will end in your eye. At least you will still be able to hear.

I might give one of these a try to see if it cuts down on fogging.

safety gear.JPG

[Frank Pratt]

Frank - can you explain your reasoning? Seems to me, a respirator is in effect, a sealed environment. I realize we exhale moisture as we breathe but seems to me breathing in a higher humidity environment would increase the moisture we inhale and thus exhale. No?

I haven't work in high humidity environments, so no personal experience.

It generally is very dry here, but we do also have very humid days. I haven't noticed that the mask is any less "juicy" on the dry days than the humid ones. I'm sure there is a little less on a dry day due to the effect of dryer air being drawn in when inhaling, but not enough that I notice.

[Frank Pratt]

Trying to get my head around that one. There are 12,600 papers in the scientific literature regarding exhaled breath condensate (EBC). TLDR. Most are looking at diagnosing diseases by studying it. I did find that pH of EBC changes with relative humidity.

Daily, 350 mL of water is lost through breathing and released as vapor from the airways surface. The total amount of water lost is determined from ventilation per minute, as exhaled breath is almost completely saturated with water vapor. That seems to be the key. In an environment with low relative humidity, the body loses water vapor through exhalation by saturating the inhaled gases before exhaling them at 100% RH (or whatever saturated is). That, and sweating is why humans get dehydrated more in areas with low RH compared to high RH at the same ambient temperature.

I do work in a high RH environment, and spent my career dealing with human ventilation (and circulation, and a whole bunch of other processes that keep us alive and healthy). Certainly my 3M ventilator mask gets wet when wearing it. Not at all surprised that yours does. Especially as your mask inside surface is likely cooler than your alveoli, so some of that moisture condenses before leaving the mask via the one-way valve.

Not sure if this helps, or sends us farther down the rabbit hole. My $0.02

Alan, you're explanation is certainly worth a lot more than $.02. I've just related my completely unquanitified experience. I just notice that my mask gets soaking wet inside whether the day is humid or dry.

[Charles Lent]

I have a moisture-in-mask solution that was passed onto me last year by Santa Claus (a friend who plays Santa Claus for the town park and other local events). It seems a little weird, but he found that putting a piece of a ladies tampon, of course new, in the face mask, absorbed the moisture quickly so he was much more comfortable while wearing the mask for long periods of up to 4-5 hours at a time. I haven't tried this myself, since I'm only just recently getting back into my shop after almost 2 years of health problems. I just wish I had known it years ago when fighting fires and wearing an SCBA. I sweat enough that I could drink it out of the mask a few sometimes. Never did this, but it was this deep in there a few times.


Charley