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Thread: 30mm vs 40mm bore size for new shaper

  1. #61
    I wanted to fit a 5x10 CNC in with everything else but found that to be pushing it. Attached is a new layout with a 4x8 CNC instead (an Avid Pro). I'm block one of the overhead doors with it but that does mean I can keep it up against a "wall" but still access the other side for maintenance. One thing I don't like it the planer/jointer with the planer up against the wall which means walking around the jointer to get to the planer outfeed. I will have to play around with that to see if something else works.

    Two places where I can save a bit of space:

    1. Removing the side table and sliding table from the shaper. I don't have a large need for either of these - adding them was more for future unknown needs - and removing them certainly makes the shaper more compact. The Martin T12 even more so but unavailable with a tilting spindle. I'm not sure if the space gained her would be worthwhile.

    2. In the sketch the Martin T70 is shown with the 1350mm (53") rip capacity. This can go down to 1100mm (43") or 850mm (33"). I don't think I need more than 33" of rip capacity but with it up against the wall (and the support arm raising up) there crosscut wider boards with more than 33" to the right of the blade either. Getting the saw further to the right would also be a big win but again not sure if worth the trade offs.

    Any thoughts on either of these?

    layout.jpg

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    While you might not want to conventionally rip 53”, a narrower setup means you can’t crosscut a sheet of plywood or longer boards. That depends on how you work. If you are rough cutting boards with a radial arm saw or some other crosscut saw, then this won’t be as important to you. Finally, I don’t know how the Martin overhead guard connects to the saw, but my Felder it’s pointless to get a 32-33” rip fence, because the optional overhead guard is a one size fits all at 48-49”. Which means I’m not saving any space with the narrower fence setup. If Martin is setup the same way, then it doesn’t do you much good to have a narrower fence capacity and table.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    I used to work in a 24'x30' shop. My machines at that point consisted of a Unisaw, drill press, 16'planer, 14'' bandsaw, router table and a 6'' jointer on casters. With a bench in one corner there was enough room to build projects. I have a real hard time believing that there will be any room to work in that space with the equipment the OP is considering. If it was me, I would be building a significantly larger space first.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast, Australia
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    151
    I agree with Mike. Also, lumber and sheet good storage eats a lot of room. I am selling machines just to get down to the basics in a 24 x 40 shop. I am tired of having to run the obstacle course just to get anything done. If your work involves any kind of spray finishing or painting there is added scope for frustrations.

  5. #65
    New layout with just saw, jointer, planer, and bandsaw. The strip along the right side under the windows is a 24" deep reservation for counter space/workbenches.

    I like the saw here because the slider and outrigger can be pushed all the way up or down to leave a good sized space for loading and unloading through the 10' door. Or the door can be opened for very long crosscuts. But there is still 8' to the left of the blade with the door closed.

    The saw could be replaced, in nearly the same footprint, with a full combination machine, and a 4x8 or even 5x10 CNC could fit nicely where the jointer and planer are. If I'm not going to expand the workshop that's surely the way to go.

    layout.jpg

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason McCray View Post
    The saw could be replaced, in nearly the same footprint, with a full combination machine, and a 4x8 or even 5x10 CNC could fit nicely where the jointer and planer are. If I'm not going to expand the workshop that's surely the way to go...
    Your space is IDEAL for a full combo machine. Only one electrical hookup needed, single dust drop, and no compressed air required.

    Ambrose CF7-41SP.jpg

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    Your space is IDEAL for a full combo machine. Only one electrical hookup needed, single dust drop, and no compressed air required.

    Ambrose CF7-41SP.jpg

    Erik
    What are the lead times for a machine like that right now?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason McCray View Post
    What are the lead times for a machine like that right now?
    For a full combo like that, probably about 6 months.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    I agree with Erik...since you have the inkling of going full combo plus the CNC, do it up front. It's going to be more cost effective and you have the space to do it well.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I agree with Erik...since you have the inkling of going full combo plus the CNC, do it up front. It's going to be more cost effective and you have the space to do it well.

    I may have to start a new MM CU410 Elite-S vs. Felder CF740SP thread. There is one from 2009. I'm not sure much has changed since then.

    New layout with the Minimax and a 5x10 Avid Pro. Still feels like it might be cramped with any CNC capable of full sheets of plywood. This space would probably be perfect with just a 5-in-1 combo and a bandsaw.

    layout.jpg

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason McCray View Post
    I may have to start a new MM CU410 Elite-S vs. Felder CF740SP thread. There is one from 2009. I'm not sure much has changed since then.

    New layout with the Minimax and a 5x10 Avid Pro. Still feels like it might be cramped with any CNC capable of full sheets of plywood. This space would probably be perfect with just a 5-in-1 combo and a bandsaw.

    layout.jpg
    Last time I went to my SCM they have 4 x CU410 in transit coming from Italy (July this year). I think they are good machines, unfortunately SCM does not do a good job in advertising their machines. Thing about SCM machines, you have to get up real close and put your hand on the machine to appreciate the details, these kind of close encounter experience is something you can not see/feel with pictures/advertising online.

    When I first started I really liked CU410 but they were out of my league given the cost. I think they cost more than Felder equivalent at the time. I endup with a Robland. they are good in terms of doing the job, not premium names like Felder/SCM, and cost roughly 1/2 of the SCM/Felder

  12. #72
    Join Date
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    While I'm certainly and SCM/Minimax fan and own three of their machines, the Felder is a very worthy machine. In the present market, "availability/lead-time" would be a bigger factor that in the past, IMHO, between them if they are equipped/spec'd similarly.

    I will say to you that you can shift that CNC to the right and to the back wall a little bit. which will help with your space for assembly, etc.,
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
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    There are 2 issues with 4 function combination machines

    1) limited rip capacity on the saw, maybe as small as 26 inches, not an issue for everyone, or you rip on the sliding table

    2) you need operator space on both sides of the machine

    The above can make a jointer/planer and a saw/shaper a better solution for some shops.

    There’s no doubt however that combination machines can provide high quality, extremely capable machines in a compact, cost effective format….Rod.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Ouray Colorado
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    To work in that space I would have a short stroke slider and be prepared to use a track saw some. Along with a combo jointer planer and stand alone shaper with a smaller footprint. For me a mortiser would be needed also. A full combo is a lot of change over between some operations and the other points Rod mentioned.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    To work in that space I would have a short stroke slider and be prepared to use a track saw some. Along with a combo jointer planer and stand alone shaper with a smaller footprint. For me a mortiser would be needed also. A full combo is a lot of change over between some operations and the other points Rod mentioned.
    How would you configure a new Martin saw in a shop this size? 1900mm slider and 850mm rip capacity? I can achieve full stroke length with the 3000mm slider along the short wall and I feel like I'd regret not having that and the 1350mm rip capacity even though the latter may not be needed much.

    I have stopped considering the T27 shaper as an option. It is too big and will need to wait for a shop expansion. Looked a bit at the Minimax TW 55ES. It is compact, the spindle tilts, and it has a sliding table with outrigger very similar to their saws. Couldn't find any mention of someone using one of these on the forum. Currently leaning more towards the Martin T12 with the front mountable sliding platform - I think you mentioned earlier in this thread this it is a good option for smaller jobs.

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