CTD, Kapex, RAS or other?

[Kevin Jenness]

OMGA's are not cheap. Kapex's are not cheap. Given a similar budget, one can do ok for themselves on the used market. Here is an example--well, two examples--i recently purchased a 1970s Martin T75 for $750 that would more than likely be a better table saw than Mark currently has, and would be a better crosscut chop saw than Mark is going to buy. That is example #1. Example #2 is years ago i sold a festool MFT, Kapex, and Jessem router table with every imaginable accessory and add on to buy a used Felder KF700. The Felder is a better panel machine than the Festool MFT. Its a better miter/crosscut saw than the Festool Kapex. The shaper with a high speed router spindle is a similar setup to the Jessem with the added bonus of being a shaper with 1-1/4" tooling. What i left off from my initial post is he might want to rethink his needs and swap out 3 tools for one better tool. I cant see the reasoning behind spending $2,500-3,000+ on a used OMGA RAS when a used slider in the $4,000+/- range will be 5 times more diverse in its utility. Nothing against the OMGA, they make great tools.

I agree in principle, but I (just barely) have room for a slider, and Mark doesn't. If he can wait and find as smoking hot a deal on a high end miter saw as you got on your machines he should be a happy camper. $750 for a Martin T75 that is not a complete basket case is not something I would expect to see.

[Michael Schuch]

as far as working a radial and creep issues and the right blade or a blade that will more self feed the bigger issue is operator error.

You keep your arm straight, if they did the motor cannot self feed. Bent elbow that every one uses is the biggest problem and everyone does.

had two Omgas show up in excellent condition for 250.00 canadian each. should have scooped one but waited for an older saw.

That could have something to do with the blade. Have you tried a negative rake?

The carriage and 7.5hp motor (a real 1947 7.5hp) have to be 100+ pounds and I setup this RAS to have about a 5 degree incline so gravity automatically pulls it backwards. I have made thousands of cuts on this saw. Moving to my fathers 10" Delta turret arm saw with a 1hp motor has a completely different feel to the cut being used to the huge amount of mass I have to move on my saw. The blade on my fathers saw is a Freud ultimate cut off blade just like the 15" Freud Ultimate cut off blade on my big saw.

My first RAS 30 or so years ago was a Craftsman radial arm saw and it was scary to use. This is where I first learned how to properly align a RAS which helped significantly.

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The point I was trying to convey was more that gaining a comfort level with a RAS greatly increases its functionality. The first time I fired up my 16" RAS my heart was definitely beating very fast... to the point that I still remember that first cut 20+ years ago. Now I have a very good comfort level with the saw... I have a healthy respect for the saw and the damage I can do to myself with it but I no longer have a fear of it.

[Kevin Jenness]

No matter the mass of the saw or one's familiarity with it, the blade design does matter - a 0 degree or negative rake angle blade on a radial saw is easier to control than a positive rake angle blade like the ones you are using.

The heavy old RAS cutoff saw at work had a sash weight connected through a pulley to the cutting head for positive return force. It still was no fun when it grabbed a thick piece and jammed. The scariest thing I saw was when an architect came down to buck up multiple lengths of random rippings for kindling by first pulling, then pushing the saw through the drops.

[Warren Lake]

more people who dont know what they are doing. Keep a straight arm the saw cant climb, the removed material is behind it if it starts to grab your straight arm wont fold. You are pushing it back into an area wiht no material to grab if need be but main thing it cant climb when you arm is straight as it will not fold at the elbow.

and the old navy guy used it backwards all the time that is material in with saw fully out then cut into it. He also cut tons of aluminum on it same way.

[Rod Wolfy]

I have used a miter for years and learned on my dad's RAS. He pointed out that the blade on a RAS kicks the wood up, off the table and so it was not a safe. A common mistake on a miter saw is people use it as a "chop" saw. When you lift the blade while it's still spinning?!?! I've gotten hurt as a result. You need to leave the blade down until it stops.

I had a DeWalt, a Makita and now a Bosch Axel glide. The Bosch is much too heavy for moving anywhere, but it's been great for cutting most of my wood down for whatever project I'm working on. It's been accurate enough for me, but I don't mind being off by 1/16" now and again on most projects.

[John TenEyck]

OMGA's are not cheap. Kapex's are not cheap. Given a similar budget, one can do ok for themselves on the used market. Here is an example--well, two examples--i recently purchased a 1970s Martin T75 for $750 that would more than likely be a better table saw than Mark currently has, and would be a better crosscut chop saw than Mark is going to buy. That is example #1. Example #2 is years ago i sold a festool MFT, Kapex, and Jessem router table with every imaginable accessory and add on to buy a used Felder KF700. The Felder is a better panel machine than the Festool MFT. Its a better miter/crosscut saw than the Festool Kapex. The shaper with a high speed router spindle is a similar setup to the Jessem with the added bonus of being a shaper with 1-1/4" tooling. What i left off from my initial post is he might want to rethink his needs and swap out 3 tools for one better tool. I cant see the reasoning behind spending $2,500-3,000+ on a used OMGA RAS when a used slider in the $4,000+/- range will be 5 times more diverse in its utility. Nothing against the OMGA, they make great tools.

Your economics make sense but you can cut perfect miters for far less money and in far less space. Nearly any saw, including ones most people already own, plus a shooting board is really all you need. It's not a viable solution for a finish carpenter, but neither is a slider. But for a hobbiest or custom furniture maker it's a perfectly acceptable and low cost solution.

[Brian Holcombe]

Outlay is only one form of expense, spending shop hours is another. The shop hour expense is harder to calculate but often considerably more expensive over a year or multi-year time line.

I use a slider, use the Omga, and have spent years cutting them by hand and using a shooting board. I also used a Kapex and a Kapex combined with a shooting board to perfect the cut. I’ve cut thousands of miters in each one of these configurations. The Omga and slider are the fastest approach that does not sacrifice accuracy and remains accurate over time. The shooting board is the slowest but can be extremely accurate and the SCMS (Kapex and hitachi in my case) is the not any slower than the Omga but is not nearly as accurate over repeated use.

[Bryan Hall]

The one kind of saw that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is a non-sliding miter saw, which I think of as a chop saw, from the major manufacturers. I have had a Dewalt for about 8 years thats been really abused and it is still as accurate as I care to measure-I don't see gaps in picture frames...While I have never owned a scms, the slide mechanism really seems to introduce a lot of error into the system.

I am following this thread closely, because I have a sliding table saw that I really like, but I only ever use it for crosscutting, and it takes a ton of space my 1000sf shop. I am thinking about moving it along, if I can find a very good cross cutting solution that would occupy a narrow space against a wall. I don't build very many cabinets, though I have a couple of cabinet projects coming up.

The Omgas sure look nice, but it seems like the chop saws at 1/10th the price could be dialed in, especially of they aren't asked to move around. I'd buy a used Omga in a heart beat, if one showed up at decent price, but they sure don't pop up around here.

The saw I mentioned, the dewalt 716XPS is non sliding. I find it to be excellent, even with being jostled in a work van all day. I simply find it redundant to my non sliding table saw for the most part. It's rare that I NEED my chop saw in the shop, so I just use the table saw.